Double Bass On stage situation, what would you do?

[jakrees747]

Although the points he brings up in the email may be valid, and it may not be inappropriate to point them out at some stage, YOU DON'T DO IT IN THE MIDDLE OF A SET IN FRONT OF AN AUDIENCE, NO MATTER HOW SMALL!!!! That's total amateur s**t.

He still should have STFU onstage and just discussed it afterward.

I admit have a thing about folks who think that if they yell enough at someone, people will somehow magically instantly improve.

i totally agree with phatbass on this one, he is being quite a hypocrite in accusing you performers of being unprofessional whilst stamping his foot in a most unprofessional manner more like a spoiled child than a grown-up.

if youre working with musicians who you feel could do better, then try working with them to make it better, not venting on them!

i appriciate the guy might be in constant pain, but i wouldn't tolerate it in any band member unless he was some sort of jazz keith moon (i dont know any awesome jazz drummers)

 

[jakrees747]

I would hold a meeting at the next rehearsal and address the issues he pointed out with the whole band their. Though, I have a feeling if you all think his points aren't valid, he'll assume you're just ganging up on him. Nonetheless, I'd still address it.

As for him hitting the guitarist, that would have gotten him instantly cut loose from any band I'm leading. I understand tensions get hot, but there's no need to hit someone unless you are physically threatened and imminent danger of being attacked. At his age, one would think he'd know that as well.

also agreed. this is schoolyard behavior.

 

[JayfromDeeKay]

Here's my take on it. Mind you, it's just guesswork based on my experience.

1. He has serious back pain. Therefore, dragging his gear to a gig and playing the gig, sitting up at his drumkit all night, is probably gonna cause him more pain. So he might be feeling: "If I'm enduring all this pain to play, everything else better damn well be perfect and sound fabulous, so that it's worth it" -> unrealistic expectations towards you guys.

2. He knows, though he might never admit it, that he's not well enough to play gigs anymore. Instead of admitting that, it's easier to blame everyone else, so his exit from music was due to "other people being amateurs".

And btw, pain does make you more irritable generally, and especially guys might take offense at people wanting to help, because it reminds them that there's stuff they can't do themselves anymore. This, however, IN NO WAY excuses hitting anyone EVER, IMO, unless of course it was an accident and he was only trying to shove the helping hand away.

 

[cnltb]

You are performing 3 sets of jazz at a local restaurant for $75 a man. Drummer does not like what he is hearing and let's the band know, using low volume angry words. No cursing but stern in nature. Ok or violation of stage etiquette?

A follow up conversation went nowhere, in both of our opinions. He told me he thought I was "thin skinned" and over sensitive." He also said he thought it was not at all inappropriate of him to tell us that we needed to play better. He said that had he known we were going to play so poorly, in his opinion because we were not trying hard enough, then he would have stayed home that night.

He has a masters in jazz performance. I have just started playing jazz in the past 3 years, but have loved jazz all my life. Links in my sig for anyone interested in sound or video samples.

Here is the text of an e-mail he sent out after the gig:

"Bandmates,

I have reflected on my comments during and after the third set, Saturday night at Petworth, and I am no less disappointed at how the band performed, nor how it seemed that a solid effort was not being given. Perhaps the poor turnout among patrons played a part, perhaps individual fatigue contributed, but hopefully it wasn't because it was the best effort of which we are capable.

I've come to wonder whether certain things can ever change in TDJB . . . with or without rehearsals. I would, however, recommend addressing the following at a minimum:

• We need to revisit the idea of solos being "tied in a bow" at the end, in such a way that one soloist doesn't continually "step on" the next. Most of the solos Saturday night were just rambling and note-y; ending with a "whimper," or meandering into the beginning of the next soloist's first chorus.

• We need to (ONCE AND FOR ALL) figure out why we can't seem to correctly play "A-A-B-A" form, without altering it to "A-A-B" once the melody has been stated and is no longer a guideline. We must internalize 4-, 8-, 12-, 16-, 24-, and 32-bar structures.

• There is a wide rage of notation-reading skills in our band, and that's not unusual for any group. As a group, we are obviously not a sight-reading band, and therefore it is evermore necessary for us to REHEARSE! What I don't understand is why we can't seem to follow the charts of simple tunes, and Ron's offering of "And I Love Her" was about as simple as a chart can be.

We must do better, because Saturday's gig, the majority of it anyway, was bush-league . . . at best!"

If he has a point, that's fair enough. Being critical of ones own performance and that of people one is performing with is important i think and might improve future efforts.
Having one's sh** together before performing won't hurt either.
but...did he not know who he was going to be performing with?
Dragging the atmosphere down is obviously not the ideal thing to be doing.
Nut I would try see it as him just trying to do the best job possible and if I was one of the band members he criticised, I'd pull my pants up and practice in order to do a better job next time.

I would address the points he made and if you think the way he made them, address that.
Give him a chance to elaborate and be as detailed in what he has to say, as he can, to avoid miscommunication.
Don't be hasty in whatever you end up doing.
Maybe you are just lucky to have a drummer that cares.

$75 for three sets doesn't seem a lot...
Maybe that was part of it?

 

[Plays_For_Dog]

Praise in public, scold in private. This simple rule applies to every facit of life. Including stage performance. If you aren't good enough for him, tell him to find another band. (Not saying you aren't, that just seems to be his Master's opinion) Music is supposed to be fun. As soon as it stops, then you as a musician have to remove the snag and get back to having fun with it.

 

[delta7fred]

Just my thoughts. IMO, YMMV, etc.

He must have known before of all the points he raised, and on stage is definitely not the place to start bringing them up. It has already been said that on stage you have to at least appear as though you are enjoying it, even if you would rather be having your teeth filed. He either wants to accept that not everyone is perfect, like he is, or find a band where they are.

Being in pain is no excuse to take it out on the band. Our guitarist is at present in remission with bone cancer and knows that when it returns his days are numbered. He is in constant pain due to his spine slowly collapsing, some days it is worse than others but you would never tell when he has his guitar on. He goes out to enjoy every rehearsal and gig no matter how crappy. He has been told not to lift anything heavy, so his Fender Twin is a definite no-no. I continually tell him off for lifting it when the drummer or I will gladly do it for him. He does not like to bother us is his usual reply.

 

[Rockmusician]

Nothing should ever be said on stage. Save it for after the show and in a private situation. I was in a band several years ago where the guitar player got lost and played the wrong part. After the song was finished he went to the microphone, turned toward the rest of the band and said "It's obvious you guys haven't been practicing".

At another show he tried to embarass me on stage. I have diabetes and one of the symptoms is frequent urination. We were asked to play an extra hour because another band didn't show up. When our original set was over, I told the guitar player to stall for a minute so I could go to the men's room. He walked up to the microphone and announces "We are going to have a delay while my bass player goes to take a piss". I walked up to the microphone and said "That would be me" and took a bow. The fact that I didn't let it bother pissed off the guitarist even more. That was the last show I ever did with him.

 

[forester]

i recall a bass player hocking lugies at the drummer(his cousin) throughout a set....pro. act.

 

[TroyK]

I've had things like this happen before. Not exactly, but there's a drummer and sax player who I play with some times who argue with each other during a song, loud enough to be heard by an attentive audience member, or at least loud enough to distract me. Then there was this ....guitar player from my past.

My take is this:

* Completely unacceptable stage behavior. Unprofessional, you don't want to be associated with it. We're all freelancers in the end.

* If the drummer is someone who can teach you guys and make you better, it might be worth the abuse for a little while, but not on stage. Go to him to get your whippin', ask him for feedback, bite you tongue and thank him for his help, but ask him to keep it lower key on stage.

* If not, don't play with this guy. There are other drummers. Maintain your relationship with the venue and the other band members and cut them loose.

Based on what he said:

* Wrapping up solos in a musical way takes time and maybe you guys aren't there yet. Work on it give it time, listen to as many good records as you can get your hands on, practice soloing, think about what you want to say and don't stress it, it's just where you are and it will come. Yelling at you during the song will likely make it worse, not better.

* Consistently blowing the form shouldn't happen with people out playing professionally. You guys need to work that out, individually and as a group.

Just my feedback. It's a tough thing that we do out there. Not just the playing, but the relationships. Sometimes it goes smoothly and sometimes I wonder why I put myself through it. If he can help you, make it work. If he can't, don't subject yourself to his abuse.

No comment on the punch. That's a whole different discussion.

 

[mcm]

i wouldnt play with that drummer again

 

[Don Higdon]

As more facts come out, the picture changes.
Every group needs someone to handle the business end, and someone who will be accepted by all as the music director. The music director may be democratic, taking input from everybody, and ideally, he leads the group to consensus. It's helpful if they're the same person, but that isn't always possible.
Sounds like you guys have to work out who the music leader is. If you can't agree on that, the group will be short-lived.

 

[Chris Symer]

Interesting read, now I'm going to go listen to all my Mingus records again.

 

[TroyK]

Interesting read, now I'm going to go listen to all my Mingus records again.

Exactly!

 

[spaz21387]

I think if you were messing up he has a right to call you out on it on stage. My drummer has done it a few times but he wasnt saying it in a rude way it was more of like a push to play better. But if you were playing it right then its definately not cool. id start looking for a new drummer in that case.

 

[Winnb]

"He has a masters in jazz performance."

There's the problem right there.

 

[TroyK]

Is he or could he be a mentor to you? Yes or no? If yes, then take your lumps and grow, but try to channel it off stage or at least with more subtlety. If no, then move on.

That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Renaissance]

What the drummer did was WRONG! He created bad juju onstage and that translates into a bad performance the audience DOES SEE. For all of his musical criticism, he needs to be taken to task for his performance issues. IMHO we are hired as entertainers first and musicians second. Now that isn't an excuse to be crappy musicians but if all the venue wanted was perfect music, they could play records.

I'm sorry he is in constant pain but we all have our crosses to bear. Just because my life isn't perfect, I don't have the right to be an a**hat to everyone around me.

Musical issues can be fixed, being a richardhead is forever!

 

[faulknersj]

I like playing with guys that challenge me, even if the demeanor is a bit gruff. He seems like a highly skilled(maybe more than the otjer members?) and knowledgeable player that is passionate about the band, the music, and pulling the best performance out of the players.

 

[silvertripper]

To the OP... I went to your link, heard your music. You guys are pretty talented. Neverless, the drummer was out of line. So either forgive and move on and try to have more civil conversation like adults, or find another drummer.

 

[bassman_al]

Thanks ao much to everyone who has chimed in. Very helpful stuff! I added some material to the OP to try to give a more clear picture of the entire scenario, background and all. Hope its not too much to read.