Any real jazz musician would've said "Hey, m*therf*ck@r. Shut the f@*k up before I bust you in the mouth. Now get me my smack."
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Double Bass On stage situation, what would you do?
- Thread starter bassman_al
- Start date
That's true. LOL
I was thinking... if that guy had tried that onstage here in Hawai'i in a local band, he would have wound up in a cane field with just his feet stickin' out, and the burned-out hulk of his rental car beside him.
Follow-up:
After a few more flare ups/temper tantrums via email, featuring profanity and generally not resembling anything a "friend" would send, the band has fired him as if today and is moving on to another drummer.
Also I recent found out that he has been fired and burned bridges with other musicians in our area. Shocker.
After a few more flare ups/temper tantrums via email, featuring profanity and generally not resembling anything a "friend" would send, the band has fired him as if today and is moving on to another drummer.
Also I recent found out that he has been fired and burned bridges with other musicians in our area. Shocker.
I have to say that you are a magnanimous guy for putting up with that stuff for over a year. He must be one hell of a drummer.
I have not been in a band for a couple of decades now, and this kind of drama is a big reason why. Im much happier playing as a hired gun. Im super-fortunate to have fallen in with some really outstanding musicians, but Ive also played with some guys who are still learning, or whose learning ceased at a certain point. In this case, I keep my mouth shut, my ears open and try to do my job: To make them sound as good as possible.
If they jump to the bridge eight bars early, Ill be there with them. Ill do my best to keep the tempo steady, but if it varies, Ill do my best to make the new tempo sound like the right one. If they play a V IV turnaround instead of a ii V7 on Billies Bounce, Ill grit my teeth play like thats how Parker wrote it. Thats not to say that I wont be busy the next time they call, but I would never be pedantic nor demeaning at the gig. If things aint happening by that nights downbeat, they aint gonna happen halfway into the second set.
If I happen to wind up as a leader on a gig, Ill be sure to hire guys I know are simpatico with my concept (and sometimes the most accomplished musician is not the best one for the gig. Take, for instance, the guitar player who insisted on playing Countdown at a society wallpaper job.) Maybe this attitude with keep me a tiny fish in a small pond, but I still look forward to each and every gig I play.
I have not been in a band for a couple of decades now, and this kind of drama is a big reason why. Im much happier playing as a hired gun. Im super-fortunate to have fallen in with some really outstanding musicians, but Ive also played with some guys who are still learning, or whose learning ceased at a certain point. In this case, I keep my mouth shut, my ears open and try to do my job: To make them sound as good as possible.
If they jump to the bridge eight bars early, Ill be there with them. Ill do my best to keep the tempo steady, but if it varies, Ill do my best to make the new tempo sound like the right one. If they play a V IV turnaround instead of a ii V7 on Billies Bounce, Ill grit my teeth play like thats how Parker wrote it. Thats not to say that I wont be busy the next time they call, but I would never be pedantic nor demeaning at the gig. If things aint happening by that nights downbeat, they aint gonna happen halfway into the second set.
If I happen to wind up as a leader on a gig, Ill be sure to hire guys I know are simpatico with my concept (and sometimes the most accomplished musician is not the best one for the gig. Take, for instance, the guitar player who insisted on playing Countdown at a society wallpaper job.) Maybe this attitude with keep me a tiny fish in a small pond, but I still look forward to each and every gig I play.
As someone who has seen one of your gigs at that restaurant, I can say that the difference in jazz experience between players was not readily apparent at all. The drummer certainly didn't seem to be holding the whole group together and I'm sure you all will be able to groove just fine with a new one. Best of luck with the new guy! I'll have to come check out the 'new' band sometime soon.
" If things aint happening by that nights downbeat, they aint gonna happen halfway into the second set."
Truer words have never been spoken! Thanks Mike!
And thanks Johannes for the first-hand account and the nice comiment! I hope you are enjoying the LMII that you got!
Truer words have never been spoken! Thanks Mike!
And thanks Johannes for the first-hand account and the nice comiment! I hope you are enjoying the LMII that you got!
Oh and Mike, I am a very patient guy to a fault, as in this situation. He was not one hell of a drummer, but he was a good one and most of the time was a good guy to be with. But I don't curse my friends out in emails or any ace for that matter. And I got tired of making excuses for him. It became toxic.
I am glad your situation with the drummer is resolved.
I recommend you start fresh and go ahead and embrace your role as founder - and take on the role officially as band leader. You don't have to be the best player. You just have to be willing to take on some of the organizational responsibilities - like setting agendas and expectations.
Since everyone in the band knows what the last drummer was like, it won't come out of the blue if you tell the group as a whole and in person that it's not OK to bitch and moan on stage. Everyone has a bad night and some issues are worth addressing - but nothing can be done once the show is rolling.
A simple meeting with the group - a postmortem - where you all agree on some basic 'rules' will go a long way toward preventing that sort of behavior as well has having solid justification for consequences should anyone decide they want to "Rich-Mingus" the band onstage.
I recommend you start fresh and go ahead and embrace your role as founder - and take on the role officially as band leader. You don't have to be the best player. You just have to be willing to take on some of the organizational responsibilities - like setting agendas and expectations.
Since everyone in the band knows what the last drummer was like, it won't come out of the blue if you tell the group as a whole and in person that it's not OK to bitch and moan on stage. Everyone has a bad night and some issues are worth addressing - but nothing can be done once the show is rolling.
A simple meeting with the group - a postmortem - where you all agree on some basic 'rules' will go a long way toward preventing that sort of behavior as well has having solid justification for consequences should anyone decide they want to "Rich-Mingus" the band onstage.
I know exactly what you mean, Al. In my early days, I was in a couple of situations that required this type of action, and it was always a hard decision. Sacrificed a couple of good friendships. But when the situation toxic, I agree its time to let it go.
I'd be willing to bet its become harder and harder over the past year for the guy to justify the complaints you described in the initial post. I've found that the best strategy sometimes is patience. There are guys who couldn't find their way through Rhythm Changes to save their lives two years ago who are now playing circles around me!
I'd be willing to bet its become harder and harder over the past year for the guy to justify the complaints you described in the initial post. I've found that the best strategy sometimes is patience. There are guys who couldn't find their way through Rhythm Changes to save their lives two years ago who are now playing circles around me!
Funny you mention RC, Mike. The former drummer also was a vibes player and wrote some pretty cool songs, one of which was on RC. So if it were not for him, I would still be muddling my way through the 1-6-2-5.
Its still a work in progress, but yes, I think the development of the band, and my development in particular from a total jazz novice to someone who at least won't wreck the train has demanded that a new set of rules get established. Which we as a group have already done. The new drummer is a good friend and past bandmate of mine. We are all now on the same page of music, which is a welcomed relief!
Its still a work in progress, but yes, I think the development of the band, and my development in particular from a total jazz novice to someone who at least won't wreck the train has demanded that a new set of rules get established. Which we as a group have already done. The new drummer is a good friend and past bandmate of mine. We are all now on the same page of music, which is a welcomed relief!
It is possible to point out a flaw in the performance and try to steer the ship back on course without "venting" or being insulting. It can be done in a subtle way, and sometimes it's better than the ensuing train wreck.
If that's what the drummer was trying to do, it's not a violation of anything other than caring about the performance and trying to get you guys on the same page. Granted, this is something that should be done at rehearsal, but sometimes life is not so convenient.
If he got angry, used harsh or insulting words or tone, and especially if the audience picks up on it, then he's crossed the line.
Last gig, during a song, I walked back beside my drummer and very genially shared a thought I was having about something he does every time we play the song that causes a bit of embarassment for the entire band. I did it in a very subtle way and was quick and to the point, with kind words and a smile on my face, we never broke stride, no one else in the band or the audience knew about our little heart-to-heart. We had discussed this issue several times before, it obviously wasn't being resolved, and I thought "in the moment" might be a better object lesson.
It's not the ideal, but it's not always wrong.
If that's what the drummer was trying to do, it's not a violation of anything other than caring about the performance and trying to get you guys on the same page. Granted, this is something that should be done at rehearsal, but sometimes life is not so convenient.
If he got angry, used harsh or insulting words or tone, and especially if the audience picks up on it, then he's crossed the line.
Last gig, during a song, I walked back beside my drummer and very genially shared a thought I was having about something he does every time we play the song that causes a bit of embarassment for the entire band. I did it in a very subtle way and was quick and to the point, with kind words and a smile on my face, we never broke stride, no one else in the band or the audience knew about our little heart-to-heart. We had discussed this issue several times before, it obviously wasn't being resolved, and I thought "in the moment" might be a better object lesson.
It's not the ideal, but it's not always wrong.
Nothing good ever comes from arguing at a gig no matter how low in volume. During a set is even worse. It can only guarantee that the rest of the night will suck.
