Double Bass once again, thoman DB + mics...

[tero kemppainen]

Hello everybody.doublebass from Finlandia writing.
So, the all-time-favorite, DB from thomann...
As i cracked the cover of my bass and the repair is about the price of my bass, thinking of a new bass, and i pretty settled to thomann 22 3/4.My bass is completely wooden and i am always using microphone on it, for i usually play with high volumes(Amp and drums) and i am having hard time to get enough volume.I have GK MB150S with extra cabinet, and i am using SHADOW 950 as a mic.I also have the Schertler dyn-b, but at the moment impossible to use it, really boomy and feedbacking instantly.

so, with thomann 22 3/4 and GK MB150S, any recommondations for microphone?
Thinking of realist copper or fishman full circle.never tried those, but they seem like good choices.

What about thomann 22 or 33, any experience about using microphone, is the laminate easier on the feedback, generally?At some rewievs, it is said that carved, full wood feedbacks easier...?
I have spirocore mittel strings now, which suits me fine.
I play mostly bebop and free jazz, mostly on pizzicato.Bow for texture.Hoping for a warm and swinging jazz-approach.
Thanks
Tero

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Realist copper is not good for high volumes, the full circle works well with higher volumes, but need a bridge prepared for adjusters with the right thread. They also can built-in upside down for a better arco sound but softer pizz sound, but you need to choose before the bridge is prepared for the adjusters, since it is one way of the other exclusively.

Even if you tell Thomann your setup wishes, you need to go to a local luthier to fine tune the setup for you.

Laminates are more robust than fully carved of carved top instruments. And generally they feedback less than carved instruments. For playing purely unamplified the are often quieter than carved basses, bug since this is not what you want a laminated instrument is probably better for you.

Cheap laminate instruments are often weak in the notes below the low A. Better ones, still not too expensive, are Christopher basses, which play nicely even over the whole range.
Jonas Lohse in Germany sells them in Europe. You might want go get to Musikmesse Frankfurt where you can check them out and talk to Jonas.

 

[tero kemppainen]

Thanks.
threads up for full circle if you want focus on pizzicato?
If you compare realist copper(or wood?)to shadow 950, how is the sound-comparison and the volume levels?
For the mic which could be taken with you, when abroad to play on a guest-bass.those two sound simplest to install.

I just talked with my studio-friend, and suggested i could try a small pa-system for the schertler dyn-B?He suggested forexample to try JBL EON615 on it.Any experience on pa with dyn-B?The pa-vision sounds like a good choice for a acoustic sound.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I think threads down is better for pizz, since the sensitive side is on the non-threaded side. That way pizz has a bit more punch but arco is a bit more nasal and loud compard to pizz. I haven't tried it the other way, since this was how my adjusters were installed, but I think if you want to change between pizz and arco during a piece and like a bit softer/rounder pizz threads up might be better then.

I have the Shadow 950 too, it sounds nice pizz with the right pressure. Too much pressure and it doesn't sound good (rather compressed in some way). It should hold by itself without falling out, but should slide in easily using two fingers only and almost no wiggling. But arco is rather unpleasant. Too close to the strings and maybe the wing puts its resonance in the signal too. For more rocky or funky stuff the 950 is not bad, but the Full Circle works there too. Be sure to get an even surface that makes good contact with the Full Circle and try different angles for the most even sound over the range of the instrument. That should be inside a quarter or maybe half turn of the Full Circle. BTW, the Full Circle has a limited lifespan because of the constant high pressure of the strings on the bridge. (The same is valid for the Realist.) You won't have that kind of problems with the Shadow 950, where the pressure is really low.

I never had a Realist, but have a Shadow SH-965NFX, which also sits under the bridge foot. I would prefer this one over the Copper Realist (I played a copper Realist on a multi-pickup test bass and didn't like it). The arco sound is really nice, but the pizz tone gets a bit soft, not very punchy. Nice for a gentle jazz trio gig, but doesn't punch through a loud band as well as the Full Circle. On the other hand the Full Circle (with threads down) might be a bit punchy for that gentle jazz trio gig. I usually have both on my bass and sometimes even carry the SH-950 with me, so I have plenty of backup and sound choices.

To avoid feedback, going closer to the strings with the pickup and raising the cabinet as much as possible (between 80 cm and ear level) helps to avoid feedback. ALS orientation of the cabinet, orientation of the bass (ribs to cabinet) and distance to the cabinet can do much. If it really gets loud, use your bass amp for stage sound for you and your musician colleagues only and get a line into the FOH for the room. A high pass filter can help a bit with feedback and too much rumble in the bass too.

Never had a Schertler pickup, but heard that he Dyn-B can easily pickup the amplified signal into a feedback loop. Try raising the cabinet and don't project the amplified signal towards the bass top or bottom.

For an easy to mount pickup for a guest bass, the bridge foot pickups are relatively easy to mount or you can use a contact mic like the Dyn-B or Ehrlund, but need some time to find the sweet spot, or use a bass mounted microphone like the Troll, DPA or ATM (with the DPA mount). A good combination might be the latter (bass mounted microphone) with the first (bridge foot pickup). So you can get back to the pickup if the mic does feed back.

 

[tero kemppainen]

hello.thanks.
my shadow 950 is at the moment installed really tight, and the compression is there.have to try to loose it a bit and try.
nice to hear something good about the Shadow SH-965NFX, could also be a good choice.
yes, i want punch in my jazz pizzicato.mostly trying to push the tempos and make a movement also with the bass.usually the amplified bass is just a soft mash, with no punch.how is the pizzicato with shadow 965?and volume levels, close to 950?somewhere said it is a little dark-ish..?
thanks
tero

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Volume level is a bit low, but not too much with the 965. A bit dark too, but could get some highs. Depends on the strings, bass, amp and cabinet. Better don't use a dark string with it. Pizz is a bit soft but arco is very nice. Hard to find something for both, the Full Circle is a bit rough with arco, not too much, but I would like it a bit less rough. For a lot of arco or a smaller/softer band I keep the 965nfx or a ATM35 bass mounted mic, for louder ensembles I prefer the Full Circle.
A German Bassbalsereit might be an option or a Wilson K1 in the bridge leg if you don't have adjusters. I don't like the Lifeline, too dark for my taste, the Full Circle gets through better. Used it in a big band for about a year with Innovation Braided strings and a Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0-10T with a DI line to the FOH. Plucking at the end (or below) the fingerboard gives punch, just have a look that the hand does not move up during playing. The Genz Benz is not neutral but punches through the band well and nicely.
In the beginning I hated the Full Circle, but using an impedance buffer and turning the pickup and checking the sound over the whole range of the instrument got me a position that I liked.
The NFX is probably OK with Spiros, but the full circle better with softer/darker strings. I think you would better have a pickup in your bridge leg. But check the 950 first. Be very careful removing wood, do almost nothing and check very often. It was only a very little bit I removed until the sound was nice.