EXACTLY! You've stated my question better than I did.
Cool. I'm going to try all the ideas going forward.
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one finger per fret--epiphany
- Thread starter A.Diva
- Start date
EXACTLY! You've stated my question better than I did.
Cool. I'm going to try all the ideas going forward.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Look around on http://www.carolkaye.com/ - she used to have extensive information about methodology and hand health there, probably still does.
A lot of these proponents of super stretches and 1234 fingering down by the nut might later find themselves in the horrible position Carol and a lot of other good players have of real physical problems that curtail or hinder bass playing, and then maybe they'll be reevaluating the macho stance that got them there in the first place. I've seen guys with huge hands get by, but I've seen people who barely smoked get lung cancer. Go ahead, roll the dice ; }
A lot of these proponents of super stretches and 1234 fingering down by the nut might later find themselves in the horrible position Carol and a lot of other good players have of real physical problems that curtail or hinder bass playing, and then maybe they'll be reevaluating the macho stance that got them there in the first place. I've seen guys with huge hands get by, but I've seen people who barely smoked get lung cancer. Go ahead, roll the dice ; }
I use OFPF for the whole fingerboard on a 5 string with a 35" scale neck. First position is a little bit of a stretch but I am used to it now.
You know what they say about big hands...
... big gloves.
PS: I think I do have decent reach - I used to play keys and had a decent span back then. Maybe that's got something to do with it.
I'm an example of someone who is physically capable of playing OFPF in the lower registers and chooses not to. Simandl is much more comfortable and makes more sense to me, and on as for injury - why risk it?
Sometimes I will play in a sort of hybrid system though. Whatever facilitates the most practical fingering. For example, if playing a G major scale in second position I would use Simandl for the E and A string, and switch to OFPF for the D string:
G-----------------
D-----------2-4-5-
A-----2-3-5-------
E-3-5-------------
--2-4-1-2-4-1-3-4
Note that "4" (pinky) is actually pinky and ring together.
Of course when I am playing jazz, especially with a lot of chromaticism, all of this goes out the window for time to time.
The OFPF system works well when used in the upper registers. Down low (depending on the person), not so much.
For me, I practice this method to really work out my pinky. When it comes to performing, I really don't think about what finger goes where, it just happens now.
Being able to use all four fingers allows you to be a little more efficient technically. Its all about the economy of motion when it comes to playing, the more you work on the technique, the more effortless it plays.
For me, I practice this method to really work out my pinky. When it comes to performing, I really don't think about what finger goes where, it just happens now.
Being able to use all four fingers allows you to be a little more efficient technically. Its all about the economy of motion when it comes to playing, the more you work on the technique, the more effortless it plays.
Actually, I suggest tying 10 lb barbells to each finger for about 10 minutes ber day to stretch your fingers to the appropriate length to enable this.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Sure you aren't contrasting 1234 with 123 fingering? Because 124 gives the pinkie plenty of work.
This is a video on OFPF I made which details exactly why I don't use it, and strongly recommend against it, in the lower positions.
Isaia Bille would disagree with you, but I think the OFPF dogma that pervades electric bass players comes from the fact that they've never played DB in the Simandl tradition. There really is nothing to be gained by OFPF in the lowest positions anyway.
When are you going to make another melodic soloing video?
I used to be a total OFPF nazi for many years. I used to try to get my fretting hand to behave like Robert Fripp's left hand, even in first position. [For those not familiar, Fripp plays guitar, which has a much smaller scale.]
This worked well for a long time, but now it's out of the question. Sometimes I get strong pain in my wrists and shoulder, so for the past year-and-a-half, I've been working the closed hand technique in the lower positions. I should'a been employing this technique at times from day one, as it's more fun not being a macho nazi @hole.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
Sorry to hear that, bassrique. I'm no expert on the dietary and supplement things you might be able to do to overcome what you are currently sometimes feeling, but it's good that you've gotten away from the physical stress that seems to get the ball rolling downhill.
I made one talking about guide tones, but believe it or not it was removed by youtube for "terms of use violations". Try as I might to get in touch with them exactly why, I've had no luck, so I guess I just have to make another less hardcore guide tone video. It was a pretty intense lesson, now that I think about it.
Maybe you should chill out on the profanity in your lessons.
Just change the file name or edit it down 5 seconds so it looks like a new file and upload it again. If youtube can't give you a DMCA takedown notice then they can't complain about anything.
I've seen some of your vids. Your a mild-mannered guy. How could they have TUVed you?
I think it might be a whiner/rat. Some jackass complains because he doesn't like the cut of your jib or more likely is jealous, and the lazy YouTube employee just does the easy thing and smacks you w/out investigating and/or using logic. Similar things happen at online forums I enjoy
I should'a said "wrist" and not "wrists", as only my fretting arm hurts at times. I'm going to try Glucosamine/Chondrotin and see if that helps. Oh yeah, I get numbness as well, which sucks worse than the pain on the count of it's freaky deakyness. Thanks for your concern.
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Beginners, please take my advice and don't always use guitar technique with your fretting hand. While it does bring certain advantages, it's likely to bring discomfort over the long haul. Guitar technique with your plucking hand is another story.
And besides, being fluent on both "open" and "closed hand" techniques will make you a better musician IMO.
1234 doesn't make a lot of sense in the lower registers
123 doesn't make sense anywhere.
Hey Havic, thanks for the vid. Good illustration of what I was thinking.
I also took a peek at your profile. I grew up in your city. Graduated from Springbrook . . . many, many years ago.
Actually, I suggest tying 10 lb barbells to each finger for about 10 minutes ber day to stretch your fingers to the appropriate length to enable this.
Ha ha, Mr. Sturmvogel's got jokes?
However, I believe a 10# kettlebell would be better. Easier to balance.
Well I mean if you want to get really technical, your fingers don't touch the frets at all.
Oooh, semantics! LOL
It's really what is more efficient and works best for the player, rather than any technique dogma that should be followed religiously. As long as you're not doing stuff like going from 1st finger/5th fret to 3rd finger/2nd fret followed by middle finger/7th fret then just play what works efficiently AND incorporates use of the pinky.
I'm not going to preach about left hand technique as someone will probably dissagree with me , but I will tell you what I learned from a veteran bass player (DB and electric) who taught me for years.
1-2-3-4 is good. You should be able to play one finger per fret. However, for some applications 1-2-3+4 is better, especially in the lower register (and it depends on the bass line of course).
One finger per fret (1-2-3-4) is called the "open hand" technique. Using the third and fourth digits as a single digit (1-2-3+4) is called the "closed hand" technique.
An example of where a "closed hand" technique would be useful:
You're playing with a band, simple open 12-bar walking bass line in E. So you're going open-4-2-4 for E and A. That means if you use the "open hand" technique, you'll only be using digits 1+3 or 2+4. This leaves either your ring or pinkie finger hanging back, getting a free ride. By using the "closed hand" technique, both your ring and pinkie get a work out, plus there's less strain than using a single finger. Believe me, that technique does wonders, especially when you do a wedding gig where all the crowd wants to hear is "Johnny B. Goode".
That said, don't get lazy or sloppy. Play your damn scales boy and get all those fingers buffed up
, but I will tell you what I learned from a veteran bass player (DB and electric) who taught me for years.1-2-3-4 is good. You should be able to play one finger per fret. However, for some applications 1-2-3+4 is better, especially in the lower register (and it depends on the bass line of course).
One finger per fret (1-2-3-4) is called the "open hand" technique. Using the third and fourth digits as a single digit (1-2-3+4) is called the "closed hand" technique.
An example of where a "closed hand" technique would be useful:
You're playing with a band, simple open 12-bar walking bass line in E. So you're going open-4-2-4 for E and A. That means if you use the "open hand" technique, you'll only be using digits 1+3 or 2+4. This leaves either your ring or pinkie finger hanging back, getting a free ride. By using the "closed hand" technique, both your ring and pinkie get a work out, plus there's less strain than using a single finger. Believe me, that technique does wonders, especially when you do a wedding gig where all the crowd wants to hear is "Johnny B. Goode".
That said, don't get lazy or sloppy. Play your damn scales boy and get all those fingers buffed up
Also I forgot to mention is that you shouldn't feel a need to get locked into open hand or closed hand when playing a song... just because for most part of a song you use open hand, doesn't mean that for another riff you shouldn't switch to closed and vise versa.
It's hard to describe, but my left hand blends from one technique into another without me realising it and I must say, I'm very much grateful for learning both techniques.
It's hard to describe, but my left hand blends from one technique into another without me realising it and I must say, I'm very much grateful for learning both techniques.
I'm a woman with tiny child hands and the added excitement of not being able to move the pinky on my left hand very much (old skateboarding injury, the fingers on my left hand don't spread out.) Anyway, the moral of the story is don't worry...I've managed to keep going a-ok for the last 15 years. Whatever technique you choose to pursue, you can make it work for you.
