• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Only $2,000 to improve your amp's performance

#463
onlyclave said:
http://gizmodo.com/5213042/why-we-need-audiophiles
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

You should read all three articles.
Click to expand...

They art interesting. Noone disputes the superiority of better gear-the question here is specifically power cables. That is briefly touched upon, but in a very biased (uncontrolled way). As stated above, if you change a cable and say-there, can you hear it now?, you have the most biased test possible. If it's not blind, then the lstener may well be hearing with his eyes.
 
#466
lomo said:
They art interesting. Noone disputes the superiority of better gear-the question here is specifically power cables. That is briefly touched upon, but in a very biased (uncontrolled way). As stated above, if you change a cable and say-there, can you hear it now?, you have the most biased test possible. If it's not blind, then the lstener may well be hearing with his eyes.
Click to expand...

Maybe I should run a series of tests first to determine if the listener can even hear at all? ;)
 
#468
Limeman said:
As all of you know, I am a total layman with all this so forgive me for asking, but what is PCABX? I'm assuming software that measures a signal? Is this something that can easily be obtained? Is it costly?
Click to expand...

It's software (free) that takes two audio clips, plays them back, and lets you guess which you're hearing - and compiles the statistics to tell you whether you are actually able to tell them apart.

Basically it's a software implementation of ABX blind testing.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#469
Jason P Bass said:
And to all the people talking about listening tests, it boils down to this:

If you conduct a poorly designed listening test, it will demonstrate the placebo effect.

If you want to actually demonstrate the measurable effect of these power cables, the burden is on you to present a test which is not a demonstration of the placebo effect.

In doing a double blind test, any time you 1) cut corners, 2) approximate the method, 3) assume that some aspect doesn't matter, or 4) do anything except a double blind test by the book, then the study is wide open to attack and invalidation.

All of this conversation about the testing procedure has muddied the waters because we're now faced with two controversies. The first is "Do these power cable result in an audible difference?" while the second is "Are we conducting a double blind test or are we conducting a placebo test?"

Before any results whatsoever can be used for anything, the tester must demonstrate that s/he did not conduct a placebo test.

Good luck and game on!
Click to expand...



Good post. I wonder why Randi's $million remains unclaimed for years now, and why never once has one of these scam companies provided any simple proof of their claims.

Res ipsa loquitur. It speaks for itself.
 
#471
I'm on the ESP checkout page now, trying to decide if I care about this enough to buy one and run a bank of tests on it as well as do some listening tests.

As I have stated before, I think that all their technical claims about these cables are spurious or at the very least solutions to non-existent problems

I have access to some very very high end playback equipment that I helped design (I built the amplifier with my own hands) and some very discerning sets of ears (mine included), some of which belong to staunch believers in the sonic effects of AC cables. It could be interesting.

I also have access to the appropriate measurement equipment.
 
#472
aborgman said:
It's software (free) that takes two audio clips, plays them back, and lets you guess which you're hearing - and compiles the statistics to tell you whether you are actually able to tell them apart.

Basically it's a software implementation of ABX blind testing.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...

Can this be run via the mac/digidesign board and monitors? If yes, then very cool!
 
#474
Mark Reccord said:
I'm on the ESP checkout page now, trying to decide if I care about this enough to buy one and run a bank of tests on it as well as do some listening tests.

As I have stated before, I think that all their technical claims about these cables are spurious or at the very least solutions to non-existent problems

I have access to some very very high end playback equipment that I helped design (I built the amplifier with my own hands) and some very discerning sets of ears (mine included), some of which belong to staunch believers in the sonic effects of AC cables. It could be interesting.

I also have access to the appropriate measurement equipment.
Click to expand...

With the 30-day return policy, I'd say it is worth considering. That is the only reason I'm bothering with it. If you do go for it, I'd really like to learn what you discover.

Oh... and be prepared to provide full historical resumes, including letters of recommendation in triplicate, for yourself and all others who claim have discerning ears or else your results will never be accepted here. Unless, that is, you determine the cables are whack. Then everything you say will be golden! ;)
 
#476
Limeman said:
With the 30-day return policy, I'd say it is worth considering. That is the only reason I'm bothering with it. If you do go for it, I'd really like to learn what you discover.

Oh... and be prepared to provide full historical resumes, including letters of recommendation in triplicate, for yourself and all others who claim have discerning ears or else your results will never be accepted here. Unless, that is, you determine the cables are whack. Then everything you say will be golden! ;)
Click to expand...

I will say right away and without reservation that I am extremely skeptical about high end AC cables as the claims of the manufacturers fly in the face of my engineering background. Furthermore, I have auditioned plenty of high end power cables and have never heard an audible difference between them ( including some that probably cost as much as a Meyer HD-1 -see Nordost or Crystal), so I do have that bias. However, I like to think that I can keep an open enough mind to give it a fair shake in a listening test.
 
#480
aborgman said:
Even easier than that.

Use regular IEC cord. Record amp with measurement mic.

Use SuperCord. Record amp with measurement mic.

Plug the two clips into PCABX. Run tests.
Click to expand...

I shouldn't really be commenting here, as I have already suggested that a conclusive blind test might be hard to carry out in practice. But if it were me, in any test where I am trying to sort things out (e.g., with signal generator and analyzer), I try to exclude the effect of the external acoustical environment by leaving out the mic and measuring electronic signals directly.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back