Open Mic Drama...

[DCErik]

I'd say it's 99.9% her lack of care for her own equipment (not least with regards for public liability insurance - it was clearly an obstruction, that could have caused an accident / injury, which would have not made her popular with the venue manager).


If she's that valuable an asset to the local music community, why not rally that community on social media, and start a gofundme to raise enough to buy a decent replacement camera, and a professional grade tripod?

I agree with your assessment of who's responsible for this, but definitely don't want to get even more involved than I already am!

 

[Michael Milner]

She can take the singer to small claims court (if she feels that it's a big deal). IMHO, you are responsible for making sure your equipment is safe, especially in a bar where people are drunk and constantly bumping into stuff.

 

[nickpc]

Totally agree, but we've got extenuating circumstances like her being friendly with the owners of every venue we're likely to want to play and also being an important promoter of new local bands.

How many gigs do you need to cover the $900 to upgrade her camera to the new model for her? No reason you can't get her to talk you up to the local venues, right?

 

[Micha84]

Tough situation.

I don't think you owe her anything. She has to take care of the safety of her equipment and be aware of the kind of place and event she is bringing it to. "Casually brushing against a table" is something she has to factor in at a place like this and prepare for it. If it had been my arm touching that table, I wouldn't want to pay $1,000 because of that.

On the other hand, you have profited from her before and would have again, without her having asked for anything in return. So I can see how you can feel the moral urge to help her out, and I think it would indeed be a good idea to chip in.

The last part of the story seems to be that you are fearing a backlash for your band if you don't admit responsibility as she has a strong influence on your scene that might work against you when you get on her bad side. That is ugly, but unfortunately something you habe to figure in.

My advice would be to see within your band how you guys are financially, what you think is fair and if/where you draw the line and accept the possible backlash. I would strongly advice to talk to her in person and not via e-mail or phone - a face-to-face conversation makes confrontation less, and compromise more likely.

 

[silky smoove]

We're in the 'burbs of DC. Not saying she's, like, the Sea Hag handing out gigs with one tentacle and using the other to banish players to the abyss, but, again, she's good to know and broadly speaking a big benefit to the scene.

I would very much like to see a scene dominated by a sea hag with a gig dispensing tentacle

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Christophe C]

Have you checked mpb.com ? It’s a specialized web shop for second hand cameras.
She wants a new camera but it’s not realistic. Your first offer is honest and her refusal tells a lot about her :-(

 

[salmon256]

Camcorder in this day wow... I do know Canon make 4k ones so maybe it was that one or an older model. Either way most serious video tapers on these shows are using a newer free to change lens type of Camera I have to get back into my photographer I been rusty but the biggest rule after your lens, never invest in a sh!t tripod. I been handed down a cheaper one but I do love it, but I been to shops with some in the 1k they do fancy things of course but still, she should know better to invest in something cheap, also you should always watch your equipment if you ask me especially photographer...

 

[WI Short Scaler]

Both of my bands played at the same open mic on Monday night (R.E.M tribute and 90s/2000s cover band), and it was cool that they got to meet and both bands played pretty good sets.

At the end of the cover set the woman who'd been recording the sets for YT came up to me in a huff, saying, 'Your singer broke my camera!' She's a regular on the scene who posts little bands playing little venues on YT pretty much every day and books for one of the local venues that welcomes new acts, so not someone to be on the wrong side of. I'd actually been talking to her about an hour and a half before, sitting at the table next to the very wobbly one where she'd set up her camcorder on a tiny tripod. A mutual friend arrived and set his little plastic tripod on the table, and it wobbled so badly the camcorder started to fall, but she caught it that time. I actually said, 'You need to extend the legs on that tripod if you can or that camera is for sure going to take a dive', but she was busy talking and I guess she didn't hear me. Figured she's done this hundreds of times, and will definitely secure her gear before the place fills up.

Well, she didn't and it was the singer from my cover band whose arm brushed the table as he came offstage, causing the camera to overbalance on its little phone tripod and fall 4' from the table to the floor. It's toast, apparently, and cost her $1200 a few years back. Warranty/Damage coverage from BestBuy is expired, and she doesn't want to involve her homeowner's insurance for fear of raising her rate (likely under her deductible, anyway). I've stepped in to mediate this, as I've known her since last October or so. We emailed the next day to discuss, and she said the camcorder is definitely history, and that new ones now sell for around $900. In response I asked her what she thinks is fair in this situation, and await her reply. I fear it will be, 'replace the used, out of warranty camera I set up as a trap in a crowded bar with a brand new camera', which is a non-starter for us. I'm thinking that used, out of warranty consumer electronics are worth about 1/2 of what they cost new, and we'd be willing to assume 1/2 of the 'liability' for the accident just to keep on her good side, so planning to propose that we kick in $2-300 for a better tripod (she has a backup camcorder of the same model) and some accessories.

Think that's fair?

Tough spot to be in for the group. You have a conscience and some seemingly good reasons for staying on her good side.

I have a Zoom Q4 that I like to set up but it's a crap shoot. It could get knocked over or someone could walk off with it at any time if I'm not directly manning it. But to me that situation places the risk on me. Accidents and "people" happen. And for those reasons I don't often set it up.

If she has some pull with the owners of this venue and others, ask her to help negotiate some good gigs that would make the pain of paying her anything less painful. But agree on that payment amount first. Just a thought.

 

[Stranger Danger]

A

As I told the band, she's 'emotionally dynamic, but generally a benefit to us and others in the scene', so we're doing what we can within reason to get past this.

Emotionally dynamic is a great way to say drama queen

 

[bobashido]

I don't envy your position. I hate the local music scene/open mic politics. Absolutely ********. So I understand why you don't want to piss her off.
Especially since, she deserves to be pissed off. As a photographer/ small filmmaker, I take responsibility for what happens to my gear when I take it out. Like some of have said, if you singer had been malicious, or overly neglectful (which is had to do in this case, bitch you brought your camera into a bar). If I want to film a bar, I accept the risk of drunks knocking my gear over. If he had busted the camera on purpose, then it's on him. But in this case, she made her choice.
Again, I understand why you don't want to get on her bad side. Sorry that she's got you in this situation, man

 

[drewphishesp]

if shes so good for "the scene" start a gofund me to help her replace her broken camera. If she really is that valuable to the scene shed make that 900 back quickly, if she doesn't you'd answer your own question about how valuable she actually is

 

[BigJohnAZ]

Tough spot.

I would see if your guys could kick in $20-25 each, something like that and offer that to her so it doesn't look like you're totally blowing her off and being rude. As I gave her the money say this is our collection to show our appreciation for what you do, even though you do realize it was your fault for not securing your device. It would be like the same thing if I took my guitar and leaned it against the table and somebody walked by and knocked it over and the neck broke. Ultimately you are responsible for your own items.

Or, start a go fund me page. If she's so popular, that local music community should be able to come up with enough scratch.

 

[Stranger Danger]

Tough spot.

I would see if your guys could kick in $20-25 each, something like that and offer that to her so it doesn't look like you're totally blowing her off and being rude. As I gave her the money say this is our collection to show our appreciation for what you do, even though you do realize it was your fault for not securing your device. It would be like the same thing if I took my guitar and leaned it against the table and somebody walked by and knocked it over and the neck broke. Ultimately you are responsible for your own items.

Or, start a go fund me page. If she's so popular, that local music community should be able to come up with enough scratch.

if shes so good for "the scene" start a gofund me to help her replace her broken camera. If she really is that valuable to the scene shed make that 900 back quickly, if she doesn't you'd answer your own question about how valuable she actually is

To the OP, I’d use both of these tactics. Explain the guitar not in stand analogy and then offer to do a go fund me to pay for a new camera

 

[DCErik]

Have you checked mpb.com ? It’s a specialized web shop for second hand cameras.
She wants a new camera but it’s not realistic. Your first offer is honest and her refusal tells a lot about her :-(

I haven't really made her an offer yet. Waiting for her to be more specific than 'I believe in 100% accountability' before responding.

 

[_One//Man//Mutiny_]

I’ve had something similar happen with a wobbly table and a beer before. If anybody could have bumped the table and had it happen, that’s a bummer for her camcorder but just because something bad happened doesn’t mean there’s someone to blame other than herself.
If I propped my bass up against a wall and someone walked by and shook the floor and it slid over and fell and broke the headstock off, that’s my fault. If someone picked my bass up and then set it down in a way that made it fall and break, that’s their fault.
Your singer made no conscious decision to touch her camcorder, it was an accident that happened due to her not being more responsible with her equipment.

 

[Parzival]

This lady, she is being totally unreasonable. I am sure in her head she is not, but your singer did not go over and pick her camera up and throw it on the ground. Didn't even go pick it up and drop it, like in her little example. He bumped into a table. I mean, WTH? Tables at bars and grills get bumped all the time. He did not intentionally break her camera. She needs to take care of her stuff and be responsible for her stuff. This is 100% on her.

I hope this works out ok for your band. I get fired up hearing about people behaving this way. There are way too many people out there that behave like children.

 

[turf3]

"Open mic" doesn't sound like "paying gig".

Does this person have any influence on paying gigs?

If all she can do is make it unpleasant for you on the non-paying circuit, then I"m not seeing the financial benefit of buying her a camera to replace the one that got broken, since it was her negligence that caused the accident (although I'm sure she'll argue that).

 

[Peteyboy]

Maybe reach out to other bands that have benefitted from her YT posts and put together a fundraiser show for her to recoup. Maybe even upgrade. If all those bands recognize her worth in your scene, this shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[BowserGriff]

If recording the gigs is important to your band, then do it yourself. If the music scene is that small though, I doubt the local area is where the paying gigs are, so she'd have little to no use to you apart from recording the gig. Which, again, you can do yourself. Even take a friend or family member with you to hold the camera.

I'd buy someone a beer if I accidentally knocked theirs over, but 900 dollars . . . for someone elses negligence . . . no chance! Theres a line between being polite and being extorted out of fear of repercussions it seems (for me atleast). It would be pretty unreasonable for her to ask you to replace it. I'd be absolutely fine with upsetting anyone who would stoop that low.

 

[shirojiro]

All of this is IMHO and I am not a lawyer.

Accountability in this situation lies with the person who set up the camera.

Her analogy of her dropping a friend’s phone is flawed. She was holding the phone and her friend had a reasonable expectation of getting it back intact.

Your singer never had custody of the camera and was never told nor was it implied that he or she was responsible for its safety.

The responsible person was the one who set it up and was the one who was supposed to minding the equipment.

That said, if she truly is as influential as you think, then maybe I’d offer to split the difference.

I’d reassess how influential she really is though.
How good are her videos if she just sets up a tripod and leaves the camera in one spot?

What’s keeping your band from setting up 3-5 GoPros and making your own videos? You can get a clip for a camera and attach one to your headstock or elsewhere and make interesting clips for your website.

You can get a used GoPro for pretty cheap and I think the Hero 5 does 4K video.

These days it is pretty easy to cut and stitch together video. You could add audio by getting a feed from the board and a couple
Of Ambient mics to capture the room vibe.

I know it’s a decent amount of work but it’s not so hard and might end up being kinda fun to do.