Open vs compressed

[dabass]

Can someone describe/define an "open tone" w reference to pickups?

 

[PilbaraBass]

the "open" tone...is rich in harmonics and sounds like there is a bit of "air" under the sound...think acoustic...

the "compressed" tone...is rounder, less definition to the notes..."tighter" and a bit "punchier" sounding...

 

[dabass]

I thought a compressed tone would have more definition.

 

[Shoewreck]

I thought a compressed tone would have more definition.

A good compressor really can add some definition - it helps you to be louder without overloading the amp. Funny thing is that once such a compressor is porperly set up you won't hear much compression - just loudness.

 

[12bass]

It depends what you mean by 'definition'. A highly compressed signal with no attack won't cut through a mix very well. It might sit well underneath other instruments.

My approach to compression is to use the compressor for dynamic shaping, allowing the initial transient to come through so the note's attack can be clearly defined, but then limiting the amplitude a little to keep it under control. This allows the bass to be present, but more consistent in level.

 

[4Mal]

the "open" tone...is rich in harmonics and sounds like there is a bit of "air" under the sound...think acoustic...

often this translates as a pickup being brighter, or perhaps as having a bit of sparkle on it. Not thin or having excess treble but presence. Lawrence J-145, Duncan SJB-1 and Aero Type 1's are pickup sets that I have owned and would describe as open sounding.

the "compressed" tone...is rounder, less definition to the notes..."tighter" and a bit "punchier" sounding...

not sure I can buy punchier. In fact often compressed sounding pickups can have a little less punch than their more open counterparts. The reason for that is that the less open pickups tend to emphasize the fundamental and maybe second harmonic. So you get a the appearance of a large low end. What you're really hearing is a relatively restrainined lack of high end. Bart 9J's have what I consider to be a fairly compressed tone. Not a real punchy pickup. Not a bad one though.

 

[Modern Growl]

In terms of pickups?
Open - reproducing more frequencies, broader freq response.
Compressed - reproducing less frequencies, less freq response. - Like a squeezed bottom, or muted high's

Open sound... say Nordstrands NJ4's or Fralins single
Compressed... say Bartolini's w/ there signature high end cut.

 

[Kenny Allyn]

I would call a MusicMan pickup compressed or a split P bass pickup. To me it's like the dynamics are squeezed and yes there is a loss of attack.

I think that single coils have the most open sound it's been called "air" Ric pickups and 51 style P Bass pickups come to mind. They are more touch sensitive ...very dynamic.



... IMHO no pickup I've used is more open and dynamic than the Dark Stars.

 

[4Mal]

I would call a MusicMan pickup compressed or a split P bass pickup. To me it's like the dynamics are squeezed and yes there is a loss of attack.

I think that single coils have the most open sound it's been called "air" Ric pickups and 51 style P Bass pickups come to mind. They are more touch sensitive ...very dynamic.



... IMHO no pickup I've used is more open and dynamic than the Dark Stars.

There sort of needs to be a different category for the Dark Star. It's pretty much in a league of it's own.

 

[dunamis]

There sort of needs to be a different category for the Dark Star. It's pretty much in a league of it's own.

In what way?

 

[PilbaraBass]

often this translates as a pickup being brighter, or perhaps as having a bit of sparkle on it. Not thin or having excess treble but presence. Lawrence J-145, Duncan SJB-1 and Aero Type 1's are pickup sets that I have owned and would describe as open sounding.




not sure I can buy punchier. In fact often compressed sounding pickups can have a little less punch than their more open counterparts. The reason for that is that the less open pickups tend to emphasize the fundamental and maybe second harmonic. So you get a the appearance of a large low end. What you're really hearing is a relatively restrainined lack of high end. Bart 9J's have what I consider to be a fairly compressed tone. Not a real punchy pickup. Not a bad one though.

my definition of "punch" is a rounded, but strong attack...which can be tastefully "rounded" by a proper compressor setting

of course, too much compression, and ANY attack is but a blur

 

[4Mal]

In what way?

The DS is a passive single coil. It has the definition, detail, presence and punch that comes along with a single coil design. Yet it has the power of most active basses - without a pre amp.

The DS is incredibly hot - but still retains a full frequency response. An incredibly full frequency response. All that potential energy translates into a pickup that is extremely sensitive to picking hand dynamics and placement.

From a design standpoint, the DS has adjustable pole pieces so as well as being sensitive, you can balance the sensitivity out string to string and achieve a really well balanced output. On my Dark Starred Precision, my d&g speak with the same authority of my e&a. Very cool...

I think the most often heard comment from new Dark Star users is 'there just seems to be more of every frequency now'. The thing just sounds huge.

Best bet is to demo a Dark Starred bass. You have to be patient as it will show any inadequacy in your picking technique. It took me maybe 2 weeks and a few adjustments to get used to it...

 

[4Mal]

my definition of "punch" is a rounded, but strong attack...which can be tastefully "rounded" by a proper compressor setting

of course, too much compression, and ANY attack is but a blur

hmmm. I tend to think of round as comng from my tone and attack as punch. Rounding the attack would imply compression, I guess. For the most part I prefer pickups that are punchy, open and un-compressed. Later in my signal chain I add a bit of limitiing so that slap's 'n pops don't levitate people close by...

I did have a fling with the quite compressed sounding Bart 9J. In a 1 pc Ash bodied J where I used a BadAss II. that thing was over the top twangy. Even with well shaped brdge pieces. I went through a bunch of string and pickup combinations in an attempt to tame the beast I had created. I finally settled in on the 9J's and D'Addario half rounds as retaining the essentially aggressive nature of the beast while domesticaing it enough to make it usable on the bandstand. Out of the Frankenstein basses I have done in the past, that one was my fav. I wouldn't install Bart's in my Rumblefish J as they would be too dark to work to that basses advantage. In that J though, they were just about perfect. Ldervish had that one last I knew.

That last bit sort of points something out. It's not the pickup alone. You got body wood, bridge, the shape of the bridge pieces, the neck, the strings - it's all a system so you have to play one piece with the other to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts...

 

[PilbaraBass]

hmmm. I tend to think of round as comng from my tone and attack as punch. Rounding the attack would imply compression, I guess. For the most part I prefer pickups that are punchy, open and un-compressed. Later in my signal chain I add a bit of limitiing so that slap's 'n pops don't levitate people close by...

I did have a fling with the quite compressed sounding Bart 9J. In a 1 pc Ash bodied J where I used a BadAss II. that thing was over the top twangy. Even with well shaped brdge pieces. I went through a bunch of string and pickup combinations in an attempt to tame the beast I had created. I finally settled in on the 9J's and D'Addario half rounds as retaining the essentially aggressive nature of the beast while domesticaing it enough to make it usable on the bandstand. Out of the Frankenstein basses I have done in the past, that one was my fav. I wouldn't install Bart's in my Rumblefish J as they would be too dark to work to that basses advantage. In that J though, they were just about perfect. Ldervish had that one last I knew.

That last bit sort of points something out. It's not the pickup alone. You got body wood, bridge, the shape of the bridge pieces, the neck, the strings - it's all a system so you have to play one piece with the other to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts...

I'm with you...I prefer a clean, bright, open tone with good signal coming from my bass...from there, I can make it as obscure as it needs to be...going the other way is all but impossible...

IMO...the first thing that affects the sound of a bass (talking passive, now and assuming the same player/style) is the strings, then the pickups, then all the other bits of the bass (wood, neck, nut, bridge...etc)...

but the strings have the biggest effect IMO, and then the pickups...

 

[dunamis]

I think the most often heard comment from new Dark Star users is 'there just seems to be more of every frequency now'. The thing just sounds huge.

Best bet is to demo a Dark Starred bass. You have to be patient as it will show any inadequacy in your picking technique. It took me maybe 2 weeks and a few adjustments to get used to it...

Thanks! Sounds great!

I'm having 2 DS's installed in this bass (the p'ups are on order right now): Link Removed

I guess I'd better start working on cleaning up my technique!

Do you think I should I go completely passive, or keep the OBP-1 that the bass currently has? Thanks for any advice...

 

[4Mal]

I'm not in favor of too many knobs on a bass so I would at least start passive and know htat you could add a pre later. In an event I would want to be sure that I had a passive option for it.

I am notoriously anti-on-board pre-amp. I've sold every active bass that I've ever had. So you have to take me with a grain of salt. I do plan on adding an Audere in to the line up one day. That is the most 'organic' of the on-boards I've played around with. The Dark Stars have a very interesting character of their own. I would prefer not watering it down - at least until you get a good idea of what they'll do on their own. Have a look at the stock Lakland Decade. I would go in that direction for the electronics of a dual Dark Star bass. Having lived with a Dark Star P for a year, I'm not 100 % that two Darks Stars is necessary though ... I would love to get my hands on a Decade and give it a run though.

 

[Foamy]

Might be a good idea to try a Toadworks Mr Squishy and turn up the Squish, or try the EHX Black Finger and use the Squash mode. That way, you hear it for your self.
I think another example may be to listen to Boston's first album. I think that most of the guitar work by Scholz is very very compressed. It's kind of an extreme example, and it's guitar, but it should get the idea across.

 

[PilbaraBass]

Might be a good idea to try a Toadworks Mr Squishy and turn up the Squish, or try the EHX Black Finger and use the Squash mode. That way, you hear it for your self.
I think another example may be to listen to Boston's first album. I think that most of the guitar work by Scholz is very very compressed. It's kind of an extreme example, and it's guitar, but it should get the idea across.

interesting you mentioned Boston's first album...I must agree...
while the guitar parts are great and the guitar harmonies are inspiring, and the bass lines are rockin, the sound quality is not what I would consider "first rate".

I used to always think that there was something wrong with my stereo equipment, until I heard the album on an audiophile friend's $10k+ system..and the sound was...the same...

Nevertheless...Boston's first album is still one of my all-time favourites.