Opinions Needed

[pglaser01]

I am in an acoustic duo, and we’re starting to pick up some serious steam.

We’ve been asked back this year to play at a local private pool/tennis club. Here’s the spin……I’m a member of this club. Because I am a member and I thoroughly support our club, I did not want to get paid. However I have been very clear that my partner in this duo will get paid.

This obviously makes us cheaper than other acts. Look we ALWAYS get asked back places because we’re darn good

I’ve gotten wind of a few comments that I’m undercutting other acts by not taking payment myself. But as I said, I’m a member and I’m supporting them by having crowded evenings where the pool has extra money from guests, selling concessions, etc.

What does TB think of the situation? I do this as I love playing and it’s actually a nice spot to play in the summertime. Am I actually doing a disservice under the guise of “for the benefit of the club”?

 

[AGCurry]

Take the money. If you feel like returning it, do so quietly. That fulfills your wishes AND quiets the "undercutting" complaint.

 

[SoCal80s]

I usually play for free for friend's events as a gift to them, but ask for normal pay for the rest of the band. The only one who is getting "undercut" is someone who wants to take the gig from me. I'm not doing any favors to anyone wanting to take my gig. So don't pay any attention to them and do your thing.

 

[friskinator]

Why does the club need your personal benefit? Don’t they get dues from paying members? If they’re a for-profit business, take the money.

 

[Goatrope]

I guess I’d like to understand your goal.

Would you like to:

-Share more gigs with other acts?
-Silence the “comments”?
-Clear your conscience?

I suppose if any of the above are true, then take the higher pay.

For me, personally, I’d ignore the comments and take all the gigs I can for my club. Kinda like a house band. I’d be satisfied that I’m delivering a superior performance at a rate that helps the club thrive.

It’s a competitive world. Take your wins while/where you can.

 

[pglaser01]

Why does the club need your personal benefit? Don’t they get dues from paying members? If they’re a for-profit business, take the money.

It’s a good point.

The main reason I also don’t like taking payment is because, for however much it may or may not be, I’d always like money to go back into the club for additional improvements that only serve to enhance the atmosphere for families and myself by being a member.

Any chance of getting new pool deck chairs, replacing liners, adding new features (the next plan is to add additional deck space to increase seating around the pool) and just giving a great experience to the club. Also because it’s local, so many of the members are my neighbors, attend my kids schools, etc.

Those are the main points why I do it, I can’t be certain the other acts are in the same boat or are aware of my connection.

 

[pglaser01]

I guess I’d like to understand your goal.

Would you like to:

-Share more gigs with other acts?
-Silence the “comments”?
-Clear your conscience?

I suppose if any of the above are true, then take the higher pay.

For me, personally, I’d ignore the comments and take all the gigs I can for my club. Kinda like a house band. I’d be satisfied that I’m delivering a superior performance at a rate that helps the club thrive.

It’s a competitive world. Take your wins while/where you can.

I guess I’d go with a small combo of points 2&3, if that makes sense.

I understand the life of the gigging musician, it’s not always raining money. However I do love playing out. And we’re also damn good.

I suppose I’m asking, on the surface does it seem more like a generosity thing being a member? Or more of an undercut to others in order to get a gig?

 

[51PRI]

I am in an acoustic duo, and we’re starting to pick up some serious steam.

We’ve been asked back this year to play at a local private pool/tennis club. Here’s the spin……I’m a member of this club. Because I am a member and I thoroughly support our club, I did not want to get paid. However I have been very clear that my partner in this duo will get paid.

This obviously makes us cheaper than other acts. Look we ALWAYS get asked back places because we’re darn good

I’ve gotten wind of a few comments that I’m undercutting other acts by not taking payment myself. But as I said, I’m a member and I’m supporting them by having crowded evenings where the pool has extra money from guests, selling concessions, etc.

What does TB think of the situation? I do this as I love playing and it’s actually a nice spot to play in the summertime. Am I actually doing a disservice under the guise of “for the benefit of the club”?

I think you should ask for your normal duo pay even if you are a member of the club. Your partner probably feels weird getting paid when you aren't. In a previous band we played a few gigs for the lead singer's friends on a few occasions and he didn't get paid but WE did and I always felt a little funny about it, like he was donating his talent but us prima donnas insisted payment. IMO the entire band (as it were) should get paid.

 

[Ggaa]

You're working, y'all are darn good, ok to get paid. I get the loyalty to the club but I doubt they'd expect you to donate your time.

 

[wintremute]

Take the money. If you feel like returning it, do so quietly. That fulfills your wishes AND quiets the "undercutting" complaint.

This is the best solution.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Our legal dept. would have a field day with this. In a different perspective: how would you handle remuneration if you and your partner were awarded the valet concession for the Saturday night dances? If money starts moving the opposite direction, this could be considered a kick-back under some circumstances.

Riis

 

[pglaser01]

Our legal dept. would have a field day with this. In a different perspective: how would you handle remuneration if you and your partner were awarded the valet concession for the Saturday night dances? If money starts moving the opposite direction, this could be considered a kick-back under some circumstances.

Riis

Fair point.

However this is a pool….so no valet, no Saturday night dances, and also I don’t believe they would not be submitting falsely inflated invoices for services rendered….since I am not benefiting monetarily from this transaction, nor is it technically an illegal form of payment?

apologies it’s been many years since my last Econ law class.

 

[Zos Kia Cultus]

I guess I’d like to understand your goal.

Would you like to:

-Share more gigs with other acts?
-Silence the “comments”?
-Clear your conscience?

I suppose if any of the above are true, then take the higher pay.

For me, personally, I’d ignore the comments and take all the gigs I can for my club. Kinda like a house band. I’d be satisfied that I’m delivering a superior performance at a rate that helps the club thrive.

It’s a competitive world. Take your wins while/where you can.

This 100%

 

[Zooberwerx]

Fair point.

However this is a pool….so no valet, no Saturday night dances, and also I don’t believe they would not be submitting falsely inflated invoices for services rendered….since I am not benefiting monetarily from this transaction, nor is it technically an illegal form of payment?

apologies it’s been many years since my last Econ law class.

You're correct...it's a pool and neither you, nor acoustic partner, nor the private club is complaining about the arrangement. In my little corner of the non-music world, this could be considered an inducement if placed under the microscope. Then again, that's we have a legal team to navigate these stormy relationships. There must be a modicum of discomfort or this thread would not exist.

Riis

 

[FullumMusic]

You don’t need to give me numbers. This is more of a rhetorical question:

How much would they pay you as a two piece? And what real improvements could actually be made with that money? If the money they can toss to a few bands a few times a year for community events is enough to prevent major improvements to the space, something is wrong with someone’s accounting.

Also, you want that money to go to providing members a better experience: Your band is part of that better experience! If people love having music events and love having your duo perform, they’re literally spending money on the improvements you want: YOU! Your band is part of that!

Take the money. If you’re worried about undercutting, take the money. If you don’t want the money, give it all to your music partner. If you really really really want that money to go back into the club, find a way to donate it back during either a fundraiser or a charity event they have, or maybe use it to buy an improvement they need for them in a way that doesn’t seem too kick-back sketchy.

 

[BeMoreFrench]

Seriously do what you feel is important to you. Here sports clubs are 90% non profit, the only other 10% are the ones playing pro leagues in any kind of sport, yeah I know it's socialism and americans hate that, but since France is the n°1 country in the world for team sports, I guess it works, right ? I would take the money from Le Cercle des Nageurs de Marseille, but not from the local pool or tennis club, they do not make the same business. It's only once in a while I guess, so no big deal, I've played for free as a pro for non-profit associations who were getting money from their members, totally fine for me.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Take the money. When you are eating/drinking there, tip well.

 

[Goatrope]

I guess I’d go with a small combo of points 2&3, if that makes sense.

I understand the life of the gigging musician, it’s not always raining money. However I do love playing out. And we’re also damn good.

I suppose I’m asking, on the surface does it seem more like a generosity thing being a member? Or more of an undercut to others in order to get a gig?

From what you wrote, it seems more like a generosity thing. Push away those negative vibes about undercutting and just keep pushing the positive intent.

 

[DJ Bebop]

It would seem to me, a private pool/tennis club would make the necessary funds from private club dues.

Myself I would figure in an equal band share for myself like I would at any other private club event hiring entertainment. If I think there was a need to donate for a good cause for children as an example, I would do it in a fashion that recorded that. Not just not take the money in hopes that something honorable is done with it, other than lining someone else's pocket.

 

[pglaser01]

You're correct...it's a pool and neither you, nor acoustic partner, nor the private club is complaining about the arrangement. In my little corner of the non-music world, this could be considered an inducement if placed under the microscope. Then again, that's we have a legal team to navigate these stormy relationships. There must be a modicum of discomfort or this thread would not exist.

Riis

You are correct there! Hence my asking if what others may have done in previous experiences