Origin Effects BassRig Ampeg B15 Fliptop recreation

[Origin_Effects]

My pedal came and it sounds decent, only played via IEM at home and a quick play through the Mixer but the paint job is a bit suspect and the corners of the metal chassis looked rusty @Origin_Effects

How did this compare to the 64 black panel ?

Feel free to shoot us photos at [email protected] to take a look at what you're seeing.

I’m not sure what topology the DCX uses, but based on a graph Origin posted of the DCX EQ curves it seems to have a very similar response to a Bax. One thing that is novel about the DCX is that the EQ apparently comes both before and after the clipping section depending on where the settings are (according to another post from Origin)- so boosting treble mostly comes before, while boosting bass mostly comes after the clipping circuit. Then vice-versa where cutting bass mostly comes before and cutting treble mostly comes after the clipping circuit. Very cool!

Here’s the DCX EQ response: View attachment 7374424

So when set clean they can probably get very close from the 1/4” output, but I can verify the drive between the two is very different. I personally don’t find much range of “subtle” drive from the DCX, while the Fifteen does this really well. The heavier drive is also unsurprisingly more amp-like from the Fifteen. Remains to be seen for me if it will sit in the mix as well as the DCX

The DCX BASS and an Ampeg B-15 (both the original and our recreation) have a similar approach to EQ in regards to their shapes, and that is; gracious rolling hills, not peaky rocky mountains.
So yeah, if you're running both clean and without a cab sim, you'll find some spots where they sound similar. They won't sound exactly the same, but they can sound similar. As you've pointed out, the differences will become increasingly apparent as you start to push stuff, whether that's pushing the EQ bands, the drive, or both.

The BASSRIG Fifteen is obviously designed to mimic a bass amp, so the EQ controls come before the simulated phase inverter and push-pull power amp. The EQ placement means that as the pedal begins to saturate and distort, the EQ stops being just about frequency and starts to have a massive influence on the character of the saturation, dynamics and response of the circuit. The pedal also simulates the power supply of the amp, so you'll get more sag as you push things which gives you some squish. The BASSRIG Fifteen also features a simulated reactive load with a matching speaker impedance curve, which will have some impact on the tonal and playing response of the BASSRIG.

The DCX BASS on the other hand is inspired by the UA610, which is a single-ended design utilising preamp valves. The EQ controls of the DCX BASS straddle the part of the circuit that clips, with the L.F and H.F doing work both before and after this stage. The EQ controls have far less influence over the character and response of the clipping and the sound stays together more with higher drive settings. What you hear is what you get, there isn't the same impedance curve shenanigans happening, the power supply for mic preamps don't behave the same as those in a bass amp, it's all a lot more precise.

View attachment 7373791

Here you can see the eq points on the amp out which I’m assuming are going to be similar to the DI out to match the sound. The lpf/hpf is essentially the cab sim and HF/LF knobs should match bass/treble controls. Maybe @Origin_Effects could clarify di out freq curves.

The LO and HI CUT are based on audio measurements of the B-15 cab, taken with the aim of finding where the cab and speaker naturally start to roll off high and low frequencies. We did this with a measurement microphone positioned to hear the whole cab. The filters goal is to allow you to replicate these behaviours with cabs that don't have the same limits as the B-15's, whilst being largely neutral outside of that as to not make your cab sound weird.

The Cab Sim on the DI OUT is a different approach. We took the B-15 to a recording studio and close mic'd it as you would more typically do, moving mics around until we found a position that felt like it had a good balance and would sit nicely in a mix. We captured that position as a sweep and designed the cab sim to approximate a smoothed version of the frequency plot. So it has some proximity effect, microphone voicing, and the actual position on the speaker baked in.

Where the AMP OUT is flat between the HI and LO CUT, the DI OUT is far lumpier, with its first bump around 150Hz, a second around 300Hz, and then a gradual roll off until you have a presence bump 1.8kHz. Your bass cab is effectively doing all the shaping required between the HI and LO CUT, and we're doing the same for the signal when there isn't a real cab in the equation.

- Jacob

 

[sunbeast]

Feel free to shoot us photos at [email protected] to take a look at what you're seeing.



The DCX BASS and an Ampeg B-15 (both the original and our recreation) have a similar approach to EQ in regards to their shapes, and that is; gracious rolling hills, not peaky rocky mountains.
So yeah, if you're running both clean and without a cab sim, you'll find some spots where they sound similar. They won't sound exactly the same, but they can sound similar. As you've pointed out, the differences will become increasingly apparent as you start to push stuff, whether that's pushing the EQ bands, the drive, or both.

The BASSRIG Fifteen is obviously designed to mimic a bass amp, so the EQ controls come before the simulated phase inverter and push-pull power amp. The EQ placement means that as the pedal begins to saturate and distort, the EQ stops being just about frequency and starts to have a massive influence on the character of the saturation, dynamics and response of the circuit. The pedal also simulates the power supply of the amp, so you'll get more sag as you push things which gives you some squish. The BASSRIG Fifteen also features a simulated reactive load with a matching speaker impedance curve, which will have some impact on the tonal and playing response of the BASSRIG.

The DCX BASS on the other hand is inspired by the UA610, which is a single-ended design utilising preamp valves. The EQ controls of the DCX BASS straddle the part of the circuit that clips, with the L.F and H.F doing work both before and after this stage. The EQ controls have far less influence over the character and response of the clipping and the sound stays together more with higher drive settings. What you hear is what you get, there isn't the same impedance curve shenanigans happening, the power supply for mic preamps don't behave the same as those in a bass amp, it's all a lot more precise.



The LO and HI CUT are based on audio measurements of the B-15 cab, taken with the aim of finding where the cab and speaker naturally start to roll off high and low frequencies. We did this with a measurement microphone positioned to hear the whole cab. The filters goal is to allow you to replicate these behaviours with cabs that don't have the same limits as the B-15's, whilst being largely neutral outside of that as to not make your cab sound weird.

The Cab Sim on the DI OUT is a different approach. We took the B-15 to a recording studio and close mic'd it as you would more typically do, moving mics around until we found a position that felt like it had a good balance and would sit nicely in a mix. We captured that position as a sweep and designed the cab sim to approximate a smoothed version of the frequency plot. So it has some proximity effect, microphone voicing, and the actual position on the speaker baked in.

Where the AMP OUT is flat between the HI and LO CUT, the DI OUT is far lumpier, with its first bump around 150Hz, a second around 300Hz, and then a gradual roll off until you have a presence bump 1.8kHz. Your bass cab is effectively doing all the shaping required between the HI and LO CUT, and we're doing the same for the signal when there isn't a real cab in the equation.

- Jacob

This makes me even more excited to play with the DI + cab-sim!

 

[Tim Gray]

Feel free to shoot us photos at [email protected] to take a look at what you're seeing.



The DCX BASS and an Ampeg B-15 (both the original and our recreation) have a similar approach to EQ in regards to their shapes, and that is; gracious rolling hills, not peaky rocky mountains.
So yeah, if you're running both clean and without a cab sim, you'll find some spots where they sound similar. They won't sound exactly the same, but they can sound similar. As you've pointed out, the differences will become increasingly apparent as you start to push stuff, whether that's pushing the EQ bands, the drive, or both.

The BASSRIG Fifteen is obviously designed to mimic a bass amp, so the EQ controls come before the simulated phase inverter and push-pull power amp. The EQ placement means that as the pedal begins to saturate and distort, the EQ stops being just about frequency and starts to have a massive influence on the character of the saturation, dynamics and response of the circuit. The pedal also simulates the power supply of the amp, so you'll get more sag as you push things which gives you some squish. The BASSRIG Fifteen also features a simulated reactive load with a matching speaker impedance curve, which will have some impact on the tonal and playing response of the BASSRIG.

The DCX BASS on the other hand is inspired by the UA610, which is a single-ended design utilising preamp valves. The EQ controls of the DCX BASS straddle the part of the circuit that clips, with the L.F and H.F doing work both before and after this stage. The EQ controls have far less influence over the character and response of the clipping and the sound stays together more with higher drive settings. What you hear is what you get, there isn't the same impedance curve shenanigans happening, the power supply for mic preamps don't behave the same as those in a bass amp, it's all a lot more precise.



The LO and HI CUT are based on audio measurements of the B-15 cab, taken with the aim of finding where the cab and speaker naturally start to roll off high and low frequencies. We did this with a measurement microphone positioned to hear the whole cab. The filters goal is to allow you to replicate these behaviours with cabs that don't have the same limits as the B-15's, whilst being largely neutral outside of that as to not make your cab sound weird.

The Cab Sim on the DI OUT is a different approach. We took the B-15 to a recording studio and close mic'd it as you would more typically do, moving mics around until we found a position that felt like it had a good balance and would sit nicely in a mix. We captured that position as a sweep and designed the cab sim to approximate a smoothed version of the frequency plot. So it has some proximity effect, microphone voicing, and the actual position on the speaker baked in.

Where the AMP OUT is flat between the HI and LO CUT, the DI OUT is far lumpier, with its first bump around 150Hz, a second around 300Hz, and then a gradual roll off until you have a presence bump 1.8kHz. Your bass cab is effectively doing all the shaping required between the HI and LO CUT, and we're doing the same for the signal when there isn't a real cab in the equation.

- Jacob

Just wanted to say I really appreciate your approach to these recreations. It’s a fascinating tribute to the original hardware.

 

[Nunovsky]

Just got mine!
Let's try it on.

 

[klattman]

The 15 does exactly what it is vs supposed to do, sit in a classic mix perfectly. Don’t need or want the compressor with it.

The SV is there if I need to be obnoxious and the mxr is for when I want to be really obnoxious (though I have a preset for clean to use the noise gate for my single coil basses).

 

[rickbissonnette]

I used my BASSRIG fifteen on my board Saturday night at a casino gig. I play in a classic rock cover band. I used my American P Bass with flats, and my Fender Jazz with rounds. The BASSRIG fifteen sounded awesome. The BASSRIG fifteen had that vintage amp
sound I've always wanted. It fit right in the mix perfectly with the perfect amount of overdrive when you dig in a bit. I like it much better the BASSRIG SV or 64 Black Panel. I set mine up like suggested on the Origin site (I've attached the article), and it gives you some really different sounds if you own the Origin DCX.

P.S. the blank spot on my pedalboard is for a new MXR BASS SYNTH which according to Sweetwater should be here at mid to end of December.

Tech Tips: Three pedals, Two Approaches, One Very Compact Bass Board Tech Tips: Three pedals, Two Approaches, One Very Compact Bass Board

 

[wolffire99]

Don’t need or want the compressor with it

I found this as well. Loses a bit of the vintage vibe with 1176 style compression.

 

[klattman]

I found this as well. Loses a bit of the vintage vibe with 1176 style compression.

Compression takes away the touch response of the amp sims. I use it by itself or as a level adjust for a hotter bass.

 

[projectapollo]

So, attempting to re-create a studio recording bass tone that blends a direct bass signal with a mic'd B15 amp. Using the handy dandy Boss LS-2, I split my P-Bass signal, one line into the Bassrig Fifteen (soul punch settings) with cab sim, the other into the DCX (direct to console settings). I blended the returns (using an XLR to TS 1/4" for the Fifteen). The combined output to my headphone amp. I was getting mixed results. There seems to be some frequency cancellation at different blend levels. Some blends sounded really good.

So, I'm wondering of the Fifteen XLR is out of phase with the DCX? In particular as I played up the A string, things got really thin around the F note (I think that is around 85Hz fundamental).

Other phase or cancellation issues happening?

Is this a fools errand given the equipment limitations I have? In a studio they would apply some HPF and LPF to each signal to manage overlap and phasing?

@Origin_Effects I know you produce some lovely videos showing how to use your bass gear in various combinations and with other pedals. It might be cool to help us blend these devices for a studio style direct/amp bass tone. Just a thought.

 

[sunbeast]

So, attempting to re-create a studio recording bass tone that blends a direct bass signal with a mic'd B15 amp. Using the handy dandy Boss LS-2, I split my P-Bass signal, one line into the Bassrig Fifteen (soul punch settings) with cab sim, the other into the DCX (direct to console settings). I blended the returns (using an XLR to TS 1/4" for the Fifteen). The combined output to my headphone amp. I was getting mixed results. There seems to be some frequency cancellation at different blend levels. Some blends sounded really good.

So, I'm wondering of the Fifteen XLR is out of phase with the DCX? In particular as I played up the A string, things got really thin around the F note (I think that is around 85Hz fundamental).

Other phase or cancellation issues happening?

Is this a fools errand given the equipment limitations I have? In a studio they would apply some HPF and LPF to each signal to manage overlap and phasing?

@Origin_Effects I know you produce some lovely videos showing how to use your bass gear in various combinations and with other pedals. It might be cool to help us blend these devices for a studio style direct/amp bass tone. Just a thought.

View attachment 7375503

Phase is rarely just 180 degrees out across all frequencies, and is often frequency-dependent when using EQ/filtering devices (including the filtering involved in the cabsim circuit). Part of how most EQs work is via phase/time adjustment of affected frequencies. When you blend the same source but run through different EQs/filters then there are likely to be multiple phase-incoherencies happening between the two signals at different frequencies. A 180 degree phase shift option on one of the two channels can still be helpful because one of the two settings will usually sound somewhat better than the other for a larger part of the signals to be in phase, but it won't fix all inconsistencies.

As you mention, the most effective way to blend different signals to minimize phase issues is to high-pass one signal and low-pass the other. Even HPFs and LPFs alter the phase around their cutoff frequency though, so finding the right settings and blend can take some experimentation.

 

[projectapollo]

Phase is rarely just 180 degrees out across all frequencies, and is often frequency-dependent when using EQ/filtering devices (including the filtering involved in the cabsim circuit). Part of how most EQs work is via phase/time adjustment of affected frequencies. When you blend the same source but run through different EQs/filters then there are likely to be multiple phase-incoherencies happening between the two signals at different frequencies. A 180 degree phase shift option on one of the two channels can still be helpful because one of the two settings will usually sound somewhat better than the other for a larger part of the signals to be in phase, but it won't fix all inconsistencies.

As you mention, the most effective way to blend different signals to minimize phase issues is to high-pass one signal and low-pass the other. Even HPFs and LPFs alter the phase around their cutoff frequency though, so finding the right settings and blend can take some experimentation.

I did not know all that, thank you. Yes, the frequency cancellations were most severe with the cam sim switched on.

 

[wolffire99]

So, attempting to re-create a studio recording bass tone that blends a direct bass signal with a mic'd B15 amp. Using the handy dandy Boss LS-2, I split my P-Bass signal, one line into the Bassrig Fifteen (soul punch settings) with cab sim, the other into the DCX (direct to console settings). I blended the returns (using an XLR to TS 1/4" for the Fifteen). The combined output to my headphone amp. I was getting mixed results. There seems to be some frequency cancellation at different blend levels. Some blends sounded really good.

So, I'm wondering of the Fifteen XLR is out of phase with the DCX? In particular as I played up the A string, things got really thin around the F note (I think that is around 85Hz fundamental).

Other phase or cancellation issues happening?

Is this a fools errand given the equipment limitations I have? In a studio they would apply some HPF and LPF to each signal to manage overlap and phasing?

@Origin_Effects I know you produce some lovely videos showing how to use your bass gear in various combinations and with other pedals. It might be cool to help us blend these devices for a studio style direct/amp bass tone. Just a thought.

View attachment 7375503

Wouldn’t running the DCX into the Fifteen with the Fifteens blend set to 50/50 kind of get you same thing without the phase issues.

 

[projectapollo]

Wouldn’t running the DCX into the Fifteen with the Fifteens blend set to 50/50 kind of get you same thing?

All the Bassrig blends are pre-Cab sim, so the DCX in front of the Bassrig would get applied to the cab sim regardless of Blend position. I was experimenting to blend clean bass mixed with the Cab sim, similar to what they do in studios routinely - they take a clean bass signal on one track and mic'd amp cab on a second track then blend them. Based on @sunbeast educating me, I think I see why Origin did not implement the Blend knob with clean input bass mixed with the cab sim-- the cab sim would create those phase incoherencies then bringing in the clean bass after the cab sim would not work properly. I always wondered why Origin's implementation of Blend on the Bassrigs was pre cab sim. It would have logically made more sense to blend in clean bass after the cab sim. Now I (might) understand why. There are a lot of smart people here on TB. Always learning.

 

[Jesse Tong]

YouTube videos are great and all, but I am looking for firsthand advice on which of these pedals would be best for modern rock music. The B15 pedal looks awesome, but it might be too vintage-y for me. Thanks in advance. I am currently using a Geddy Lee YYZ Shapeshifter into an HX Stomp Noble Preamp, and it still isn't scratching the itch.

 

[Nunovsky]

YouTube videos are great and all, but I am looking for firsthand advice on which of these pedals would be best for modern rock music. The B15 pedal looks awesome, but it might be too vintage-y for me. Thanks in advance. I am currently using a Geddy Lee YYZ Shapeshifter into an HX Stomp Noble Preamp, and it still isn't scratching the itch.

What band references do you have for your sound? It would be easier to advise with some tone references.
Nevertheless, the classic rock amp is the Ampeg SVT and that would be my choice if I was seeking for a rock bass tone.

 

[Jesse Tong]

What band references do you have for your sound? It would be easier to advise with some tone references.
Nevertheless, the classic rock amp is the Ampeg SVT and that would be my choice if I was seeking for a rock bass tone.

I play a Modulus Funk Unlimited and a Dingwall Combustion 5 and I love bass tones like RHCP, RATM and Tool.

 

[wolffire99]

All the Bassrig blends are pre-Cab sim, so the DCX in front of the Bassrig would get applied to the cab sim regardless of Blend position. I was experimenting to blend clean bass mixed with the Cab sim, similar to what they do in studios routinely - they take a clean bass signal on one track and mic'd amp cab on a second track then blend them. Based on @sunbeast educating me, I think I see why Origin did not implement the Blend knob with clean input bass mixed with the cab sim-- the cab sim would create those phase incoherencies then bringing in the clean bass after the cab sim would not work properly. I always wondered why Origin's implementation of Blend on the Bassrigs was pre cab sim. It would have logically made more sense to blend in clean bass after the cab sim. Now I (might) understand why. There are a lot of smart people here on TB. Always learning.

I wonder if running them separately into the board would cause less phase issue vs having the LS2 combine then back? Also to my ears you can negate a lot of the cabsim on the fifteen by boosting the treble on it because the b15 high freq roll off is so severe.

 

[Nunovsky]

I play a Modulus Funk Unlimited and a Dingwall Combustion 5 and I love bass tones like RHCP, RATM and Tool.

With those references, then definitely the Super Vintage is the best Bassrig for you from Origin Effects.

 

[Jesse Tong]

With those references, then definitely the Super Vintage is the best Bassrig for you from Origin Effects.

Thanks so much, I appreciate you.

 

[kenny ames]

If anyone isn’t making peace with their Fifteen, I’m interested in picking one up.

Thank you.