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Our latest booking problem. Is this professional?

MoD_Scotty

MoD_Scotty

Jul 22, 2007
1,432
7
Thrapston, UK
www.facebook.com
#1
Here's the background:
There's one guy here that books almost all of the big shows that come through town. We've been trying to get on some of his shows for years, but he's basically ignored our requests, even though we bring a lot more people to shows than the bands he does book. All we've been asking for is to open for some signed, touring bands. We don't want $$, we just wanna get in front of some different people than our usual crowd.

So a few weeks ago, we track him down at one of his shows and finally talk to him in person about playing on one of his shows. He tells us he'd like to have us open for a pretty big metal show that he's in the process of putting together. Great. He gives us his personal email addy so we can be in direct contact.

Weeks go by, and no word on the show. I email him asking what's up. No reply. A week after my email, I get a bulk message via myspace saying that now 7 bands will HAVE to play a battle of the bands show to compete for the 3 opening slots. Several of the other bands are personal friends of his, so who knows what that will be like. Not to mention these are the bands that have been getting all the good opening slots, so they naturally have been in front of (but not necessarily attracting) larger audiences, and will probably be able to get more "votes."

So not only is our drummer recovering from foot surgery and probably won't be recovered by this battle of the bands, it's on the one weekend where two members of my band will be out of town. We've already had to turn down 2 really good offers for that weekend.

So here's my question: Is this professional? The guy tells us he wants us to play the show. We start booking our tour around his show...then after weeks of zero communication, he tells us we have to compete for the opportunity to get a slot.

The overall consensus in the band is that we think it's completely underhanded BS, and we're about ready to tell him to take his battle of the bands and shove it where the sun don't shine.

What are your thoughts?
 
#3
There's some people like that in my area and it seems like all over the place there are shady people like this starting "promotion companies" especially in underground hardcore and metal scenes. We have this dude around here that does some of the same type of stuff with getting his friends and people that suck up to him, on shows and screwing everyone else. He does a lot worse than that but I won't get into that now...

I'd tell that dude to piss off with his battle of the bands crap. That is definitely some underhanded crap. And if you guys are booking your own tour and everything, it sounds like you don't need the help of some scummy promoter.
 
#4
welcome to reality.
talent ? skills? education? ha.
it's all who you know.
don't burn your bridges either, it'll only help get you nowhere.
find other avenues, maybe some day this guy will need you for something.... or perhaps you will become a huge draw and you can turn him down and work with someone else in the future.
in the meantime i'd suggest booking tours around confirmed gigs.
 
#5
+1 Never burn bridges...unless totally necessary:D.I would politely decline. If he never gets back to you guys you aren't losing anything. However, he may call you guys in the future to open for a show. My band was in the same situation about 2 months ago, and now we are doing our 3rd paid show for the promoter. It's all about connection.
 
#6
I'd say, respond to him and let him know that you cannot do the battle of the bands because of a previosu engagement. Also let him know that you think you are a bigger draw than most of the bands he books, and that you have done your best to work with him. Let him know that if he is ever in a position where he needs a big draw to get ahold of you. Other than that let it be. Maybe once in awhile remind him you are still around.

Another way would be to get so big in your area that you call the shots. Once you reach that and he starts to try to book bands for you you can tell him no thanks, and explain why.

Whatever you do, don't be nasty as tempting as it may seem.
 
#7
As a rule of thumb, Battle of the Bands are always a joke, especially if the "reward" is some golden ring like a supposed record contract or the opportunity to open for some national act. I'm a big advocate of paying your dues, but in my opinion, these types of deals are never the way to do it. Play your tour. It will be more beneficial to you in the long run.
 
#9
I find battle of the bands fun to do as something to fill a friday night or something... but I couldn't imagine them being serious.

I'd say it's pretty underhanded, but also agree that you shouldn't burn a bridge if you can help it. I'd just politely declind the offer, if your band agrees of course, and let him know you'd be available for future gigs if need be.

To quote the Toasters, "Don't let the bastards grind you down."
 
#10
if your band is the winner of a battle of the bands your still a loser, no offense but it's a loose-loose situation any time you play for free.
metal and underground scenes are very clicky, maybe some one in your band or a girlfriend of some one in the band may need to "make friends" with some area promoters because it does seem like talent or determination have much to do with it in your area.
good luck
 
#11
The "Battle of the Bands" is just another way to get away with not paying the musicians and charging people to come see a big 7-band show. If he's judging the show obviously it's fixed. Since you have and injured band member and other members out of town that weekend the whole thing is moot.

Thank him for the opportunity but you're booked that weekend (or mention the injury or being out of town or whatever) and if he needs an opening act in the future, you'll be happy to discuss the details at that time. Wish him the best with his show.

You may even want to attend the show if you're not playing just to see what's going on and talk to the other musicians. FWIW.
 
#12
Metal Matt said:
There's some people like that in my area and it seems like all over the place there are shady people like this starting "promotion companies" especially in underground hardcore and metal scenes.
Click to expand...

In the 70's learning to play well was too hard so you formed a punk band.

Playing an instrument at all was too hard in the 80's so you got a keyboard and programmed it.

Programming was too hard so in the 90's you became a DJ.

Now being a DJ is too much work, so everyone is promoter...
 
#14
Let's see, take out the word PRODUCER and put in PRETTY GIRL.

So there's this PRETTY GIRL who you want to go out with, but when you call and leave a message or e-mail her she doesn't return your calls and e-mails. When you finally run into her in person and say basically the same thing in all your calls and e-mails, she says " Oh, right, sure I think maybe I would like to go out with you. Here's my cell number." And when you call, nothing. Then, weeks later, you get a call saying that she's putting on a BACHELORETTE type contest and if you win, you get a date.
Guess what?
She ain't into you.

And ANY of that other stuff doesn't matter - how much of a crowd you pull in, how wonderfully fabulously great you are etc. The cat obviously doesn't dig what you're doing and it kind of doesn't matter if it's cause he thinks you suck or because your singer reminds him of his old gym teacher.

But instead of staring at the phone trying to will it to ring with news of a fabulous show that you can open for, why don't you guys book the venue, book the big band and book yourselves to open for them. Augusta does have the unfortunate history of not supporting live entertainment, but doing something is generally better than doing nothing but whining about your predicament...
 
#15
Metal Matt said:
There's some people like that in my area and it seems like all over the place there are shady people like this starting "promotion companies" especially in underground hardcore and metal scenes.
Click to expand...

TWO POINTS about HOUSTON's Metal Scene:

POINT #1.) Here in order to get on the big metal shows we have to PAY to play in the form of "well your band needs to buy 30 tickets for the show in advance" the reasoning? "to guarantee that there will be enough people to justify the bigger bands to play here"

I think that is total BS but a lot of bands have to put up with that here....anybody else have to do this crap?

POINT #2.) There are some venues that claim to be "NOT FOR PROFIT" in which they keep 100% of the door, and have a sliding scale for admission (it goes up as the night progresses??? ***????) Plus they even make the roadies pay to get in (again ***????) Also the bands get paid NOTHING.

We played at one of these venues once.....but never again.:mad:
 
#17
Infernus said:
TWO POINTS about HOUSTON's Metal Scene:

POINT #1.) Here in order to get on the big metal shows we have to PAY to play in the form of "well your band needs to buy 30 tickets for the show in advance" the reasoning? "to guarantee that there will be enough people to justify the bigger bands to play here"

I think that is total BS but a lot of bands have to put up with that here....anybody else have to do this crap?

POINT #2.) There are some venues that claim to be "NOT FOR PROFIT" in which they keep 100% of the door, and have a sliding scale for admission (it goes up as the night progresses??? ***????) Plus they even make the roadies pay to get in (again ***????) Also the bands get paid NOTHING.

We played at one of these venues once.....but never again.:mad:
Click to expand...


I think pay to play is a load of crap. And if that venue concerns you, ask them point blank where the money goes if they aren't making profit from it. If you're helping make them money you should know where it goes.

We have a guy in our area who has caused a lot of good venues to stop doing shows because he calls the cops on his own shows, so he can leave with the money in the confusion of the show getting shut down. He's done this in a few areas and recently in another area he attacked, via his promotion page, a well known promoter because the guy booked a show that he wanted to book. A guy that used to work with him, was booking my band for a show. The show ended up getting canceled because he emailed the touring bands spreading all sorts of lies about his former partner. On top of that, he didn't even honor the original local lineup and filled the show with his friends bands, leaving us and the other locals out of a show.

And the thing that sucks the most is I'll talk to other bands about it and almost all of them will agree with me about this dude being complete scum, but then they go and play his shows just because there are "OMG BiG BaNdZ oN iT!" This whole "it's about who you know" BS is something that a few years ago didn't exist in our area. Local bands threw their own shows, if another band needed a show that date and wanted on, you just asked whether or not you knew the band and if they could fit you on the bill, then you got the show if not then they helped you get another show somewhere down the line. The whole DIY ethic that bands used to have around here is gone and it sucks.

Of course a few people and bands have let this guy know they don't like him. One of the bands he's burnt in the past recently let him book them and a touring hardcore band. After the band played the singer went up to this guy and head butted him, breaking his nose. A myspace page has even been started calling for the boycott of all him and his shows.

So you know, in some cases, burning bridges is definitely called for. ha
 
#19
OK, so here's what happened. I emailed him and told him that there's no way we'd be able to do this battle of the bands thing. But I also added that we thought it was really lame that he told us one thing, then changed stuff up on us. I was civil. I'm all about not burning bridges. But I made sure he knew we weren't happy.

He almost instantly replied. I'm not gonna post his reply, but he basically said he really didn't know anything about us, hadn't seen us live, hadn't heard us (***? Myspace?!), etc. He said he couldn't justify taking a risk on a band that hadn't gotten their hands for him.

I replied, letting him know just how many times we had attempted to get on some of his show (and not just ones opening for bigger bands...we'd actually tried to get onto his annual battle of the bands thing...for YEARS). I then told him how we HAD been getting our hands dirty, just not for him. I ended the email saying that I wish we could play this new battle of the bands, just so he could see what we're all about, and realize why we take this stuff so seriously.

His response? He put us on the BIG show. Turns out my emails gave him an idea about how much we've done, and what we're trying to do. Maybe he finally looked at our myspace page. Who knows. In the end, he turned out to be an alright guy. He's still gonna have his battle of the bands for the other opening slots, but we're in like flint.

I'm SOOOO glad I was diplomatic and didn't just send him some scathing rant!

Spoiled Grape: I'm gonna keep things anonymous for the meantime. Unless something else goes down.
 

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