P.A for startup band

[Frankjohnson]

I think it all depends on how much you are playing, how much you are making, how much you need to make it all work and of course the places you are playing themselfs.

We have a larger system with a Mackie 36 channel mixer, 3 power amps, gates, X Overs, EQs, compressors, etc etc etc. 2 racks of stuff, a HUGE box of cables, 2 4-15 subs, 2 4-12 tops, 6-8 monitors,

in 52 out of 56 +/- shows last year, we used the smaller setup, and I didn't miss the big rig one bit.

figure out what you REALLY need to play the rooms you are/will be playing. Buy to allow expansion, don't buy to impress anyone. My needs are most certainly different that yours, make it fit you!

 

[mcapote]

Thanks! I also was thinking about the fearful subs in the future(i know modulusman, that is going against everyones advice) since i have done a 15/6 build and have all this extra duratex laying around.

i been thinking of selling off my 15subs and going with a couple higher wattage 18" subs, little higher low end if needed and my XTI 2000 can definitley run em. plus being in Miami, we need to start looking into the reality of outdoor events too.

 

[modulusman]

Thanks! I also was thinking about the fearful subs in the future(i know modulusman, that is going against everyones advice) since i have done a 15/6 build and have all this extra duratex laying around.

It looks like mcapote isn't happy with his subs so you should waste your money and build some too. What you should have gotten from his post is do it right the first time so you are not replacing a bunch of gear 6 months from now.

 

[mcapote]

It looks like mcapote isn't happy with his subs so you should waste your money and build some too. What you should have gotten from his post is do it right the first time so you are not replacing a bunch of gear 6 months from now.

dont get me wrong fearfuls are nice, actually the design seems overkill for a up to 200hz usage since they are really made to run up to about what 800hz clean? but i dont think my system will cover events I want to play. I mean the cone area between a 15 and an 18 makes a big difference and doubling the power in a bigger box even more so which will get me to what i need for bigger events. Remember my 15sub was part of my Bass Rig(fearful 12/6/1 and 15sub through a xti2000). I ended up going with a GK combo through the PA using the 15sub it as the PA sub and adding a #2 for more low end. I just see now with how we took off and are getting alot of private event requests that we need bigger and wish i went that route from the start. Everyone was telling me ohh a starting band shouldnt go large because its overkill, but spending twice now is worse than overkill haha. Dont get me wrong if you plan on playing local sports bars or coffee houses only fearful 15subs with say dual 12 mains will rock them events without a problem, but it aint gonna cut it for the bigger events. anyways in the end its all just IMHO

 

[DONZI97]

It looks like mcapote isn't happy with his subs so you should waste your money and build some too. What you should have gotten from his post is do it right the first time so you are not replacing a bunch of gear 6 months from now.

Do you talk to everyone like you are their Dad? I know what he said and others, but I can't mention ideas, or thoughts, or try to look at the otherside of things. I am very thankful for the advice i am getting on this subject, and i will probably listen to the general concensious, but whats wrong with looking at things with an open mind? Yes i read Mcpote's post, but I am sure he plays a few large venues, I have been in most of the bars in my area, and they are not very big.

 

[modulusman]

Who knows maybe I'm old enough to be your dad. I'm not the one who has to come on an internet forum and ask for advice on PA gear. Do what you want.

 

[DONZI97]

Who knows maybe I'm old enough to be your dad. I'm not the one who has to come on an internet forum and ask for advice on PA gear. Do what you want.

Yes I will do what I want, but want to get as much info as I can to get the best bang for my buck, and this is were this thread comes in. Now not everyone said powered mains and subs are the best option, there were other opinions, but obviously it annoys you, that I would ask a question that that goes against the slim majority, to the point of you spouting off replies of disbelief. If it bothers you so much why are you even reading my comments? Everyone else has had very positive and helpful comments, but you sir have not been helpful

 

[modulusman]

Yes I will do what I want, but want to get as much info as I can to get the best bang for my buck, and this is were this thread comes in. Now not everyone said powered mains and subs are the best option, there were other opinions, but obviously it annoys you, that I would ask a question that that goes against the slim majority, to the point of you spouting off replies of disbelief. If it bothers you so much why are you even reading my comments? Everyone else has had very positive and helpful comments, but you sir have not been helpful

I gave you some good advice in my first post.

 

[OtterOnBass]

I recently put together a PA. I learned a ton about sound along the way. I ended up building my own tops and a sub (from Bill Fitzmaurice's plans). I power them with a single Crown Xti1000 (using the built-in EQ, crossover and limiter). I use a small 10 channel yamaha mixer with built-in compression and effects. The upside is that it's pretty simple, and I can put the sub where it works best (corner/wall/floor) and the tops where they can most evenly spread the sound. It sounds great.

However, when I play out with my Americana band, we just use the singer's powered mixer (with effects) and two 15" full range mains. One is our monitor, the other is for the bar. When we've play larger venues, they have a PA.

 

[Stumbo]

I would reccomend powered speakers since they will generally sound better with less work. A passive 16 channel mixer should be enough for most situations.

If you get powered speakers and a powered mixer, you can use the mixer amp to power passive monitors, if need be. Or even as a backup for the guitar/bass amps in case one of them goes out at a gig.

I also suggest you wireless so you can do your own sound properly.

Here are a few links you may want to check out:
~Gigs-stage management
1 Moving equipment
2
3
Coiling cables
Taping down cables


In-ear monitors
Getting your sound "live"

Music stands on stage?
Designing/Managing your sets

Managing sound on stage
Controlling your stage volume
Being asked to turn down the VOLUME

Directing the band on stage-hand signals
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
2

To noodle/not to noodle?

~PA/Lighting
First
1 What size?
2
Configuring
Placing Subs
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
1 Upgrading
2

1What mixer is your band runnin'?
2
QSC K series PA discussion
Microphones

Low cost lighting

~FOH
Working with the "sound guy"
Cheap vs. Expensive DI
Working a DI
1 Learn live sound mixing
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Link Removed
Frequency ranges of band instruments
Link Removed
FOH vs. on-stage sound
Solving odd feed back situations
Isolating Head/Cabs from stage/each other

Going wireless
Best wireless?
1 Moving equipment

 

[DONZI97]

So after doing some research(with all the great suggestions) i think I am going to start off with just an unpowered 12-16 mixer (used) and a couple of powered monitors (new or used) just for practice, because as of now we do not have a drummer yet. And that gives me some time find some mains. So wattage wise, what should i be looking at for the powered monitors? Any suggestions on brands and models in addition to previously mentioned? As for the future mains, i am right now leaning towards the powered variety (smirk if you have to modulus dude) and how much in wattage should those be for medium sized gigs?

Thanks again

 

[Munjibunga]

Thanks for the responses! I probably would like to keep price within reason, maybe $1500-1800 for something like the new carvin package, but I would defiantly be fine with a CL system for under a grand, especially being my first p.a, and like the idea of being to upgrade components later. I do think a 12-16 channel mixer is the way to go though.

Defiantly fine. I like that. It beats compliance any day of the week.

 

[modulusman]

So after doing some research(with all the great suggestions) i think I am going to start off with just an unpowered 12-16 mixer (used) and a couple of powered monitors (new or used) just for practice, because as of now we do not have a drummer yet. And that gives me some time find some mains. So wattage wise, what should i be looking at for the powered monitors? Any suggestions on brands and models in addition to previously mentioned? As for the future mains, i am right now leaning towards the powered variety (smirk if you have to modulus dude) and how much in wattage should those be for medium sized gigs?

Thanks again

The watts are really not important. The QSC k series advertise 1000 watts but due to internal limiting they are using nowhere near that much. The maximum spl is the number to look at along with frequency response at +-3db.

 

[JohnMCA72]

For powered speakers, the power ("wattage") isn't important. There is no direct correlation between power & any useful sound parameter. Where it is important is in matching amps to (non-powered) speakers, & the manufacturer will have already done that work for you in a powered speaker package. A big advantage of powered speakers is that you don't have to worry about the power (although somebody, somewhere, who knows a lot more about it than you or I, did have to worry about it).

What should matter to you are sound pressure levels (SPL; how loud they'll get), frequency response, dispersion, size, weight, reliability, & cost in whatever order is important to you.

 

[DONZI97]

For powered speakers, the power ("wattage") isn't important. There is no direct correlation between power & any useful sound parameter. Where it is important is in matching amps to (non-powered) speakers, & the manufacturer will have already done that work for you in a powered speaker package. A big advantage of powered speakers is that you don't have to worry about the power (although somebody, somewhere, who knows a lot more about it than you or I, did have to worry about it).

What should matter to you are sound pressure levels (SPL; how loud they'll get), frequency response, dispersion, size, weight, reliability, & cost in whatever order is important to you.

Gotcha.

 

[nutdog]

I'm not sure what to tell you about watts and spl's but I couldn't be happier with the JBL EONs. They can be used as mains or monitors and even have a 3 channel mixer built in so can be a stand alone PA. Very light and easy to set up.

Found a pair on CL with stands, rolling gator bags and cables for $700. We were using some db technology powered speakers one of the guys had for his irish folk group. I don't know which models but one pair had 15s and one had 12s. We now use those as floor monitors.

We sometimes use a mackie powered sub if the room is big. IMO it's not very musical, but does help a lot with the kick. I don't like it for running bass through the PA.

We don't play extremely loud but the db 15s couldn't hold up as mains. Everyone in the group could tell a huge improvement in sound quality with the JBLs. I used the JBLs with my party band, which is louder, and they did great for an outdoor gig. They are the model just before the current model, biamped 300/100 or something like that. Watch out because some people sell the earlier models that are much lower powered for the same money. I've since seen the new models go for $700/pair used.

Some say the QSC's sound better, but I've always found them to be much more expensive.

 

[JohnMCA72]

Also, get out & listen to what a bunch of other people are using. Pay particular attention to what sounds good to you, or doesn't. A lot of people will talk about their gear, if you ask them. See what they like or don't like about their gear.

 

[DONZI97]

Also, get out & listen to what a bunch of other people are using. Pay particular attention to what sounds good to you, or doesn't. A lot of people will talk about their gear, if you ask them. See what they like or don't like about their gear.

Great suggestion, problem is getting out. Between 56 hour work weeks, 2 kids under 5, and trying to rehearse 1-2 times a week, I might be able to go out and see another band play out once a month if i am lucky(live music really dries up in my area during the winter also) I would love to be able to get out and listen alot, but instead i have to rely on mainly opinions of others and limited experience.

 

[mcapote]

A lot of people will talk about their gear, if you ask them.

not around my neck of the woods LOL, thats why i make so many threads in here

 

[aborgman]

being someone that recently started with a PA system ( first cover band my original bands always played places with sound) I can tell you from the prospective of playing in a cover band in bars;

If i were to do it all over again I would go for atleast a 20 channel mixer (my 14 isnt enough as a 4 piece running drums, guitar, bass, and 4 vocal mics) I would probably go 18" subs and dual 15 mains with atleast 2 monitors like running off a few crown XTIs.

Yikes... for the places I play (and the money they pay) that would be serious overkill.

4 piece band (2xguitar, bass, drums, 3xvocals)

We run:

Behringer RX1202fx (10 channel rackmount mixer with built in effects) ->

Crown XLS1500 -> 2 x Community 15"+horn mains
Alesis RA100 -> 3 x "Hot Spot" personal monitors

We're shortly going to be adding a single 15 sub.

We've never been asked to turn down once. We've never been asked to turn up either.