How do the sounds on these two basses compare?
From what I hear, they both have a low end growl, but anything else specific?
From what I hear, they both have a low end growl, but anything else specific?
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P BASS and THUNDERBIRD
- Thread starter thehiros
- Start date
I disagree with both of these statements.
First of all, the Precision pickup is not a traditional humbucker per se. It is made up of two single coils that sense different sets of strings and are wired such that the two single coils cancel the hum, but they are not built like traditional humbuckers.
Second...TBirds (especially 60s TBirds) are NOT muddy in the least! They cut through the mix very well and their neck pickup has a great midrange to it...sort of like a Precision pickup with more power. I've done A LOT of research into TBird pickups (especially 60s TBird pickups (non-sidewinder type)) and though they are a lot more like traditional humbuckers in shape, they are quite different in terms of how the magnets are positioned and how they are wound.
Both Precision pickups and 60s TBird pickups have great midrange and cut through a rock mix perfectly. They can growl mightily in the low-mids area. Thunderbirds have the extra bridge pickup as well for added bite if you want it. I've heard mixed reviews on the newer Thunderbirds and I know the newer pickups aren't nearly as epic sounding as the 60s pickups.
No way. I have a nice '77 Precision (and have had many other Precisions before), and 90's Tbird, and generally the Precisions have been more "muddy". Both TBirds and P-basses are similar in band context, and support a rock band really well. Thunderbird has emphasis in low middle growl, and P-bass in the high middles. Both leave space for distorted guitars, while keeping bottom end focused. The mid range character still prevents them from being buried in the mix.
Well then I guess our opinions vary. IME, it is hard to get good sounding high mids or treble out of a Tbird, thus "mud mud mud". However, I have only played with newer models of Gibson and Epi, so your older examples could be different. Again, IME, Ps are much easier to get an agressive tone with good note defintion, primarily what I look for in a bass.
I agree with xsogol...
I think a lot of the "experience" people post about with Thunderbirds are from Epiphones. They are completely different instruments.
Gibsons are not muddy at all, but you can get suuuuuuuuch deep powerful tones from it. Like.... soaked panties rumble.
You FEEL a Thunderbird.
You HEAR a P-Bass.
It really is that way, to me. They are opposites (of high-end mass market popular brands).
P Bass has a thick round neck, T Bird has a thin fast semi-round neck. Bolt on vs. Neck through. Bright tones and mid range vs low end growl and punchy mids (with the neck pup solo). All-around versatility vs dirty honest Blues and Rock N Roll.
At the end of the day, it is a matter of what do YOU want to use the instrument for? They feel different, look different, play different, sound different, etc. A lot of people record with a P Bass because its a nice tone that you can mix with and play around with. Studio environment is totally different than live, etc.
Also, your rig will change the tone a lot, the strings will change the tone, etc. It not impossible to get a P Bass real deep and punchy, but its still not going to fundamentally be the type of sound of a Thunderbird. Likewise, you can scoop your mids and highs all day long, but the T Bird won't have the bright high end of a P.
I learned on a MIM P Bass, and always wanted a J. The neck to me felt better... Then years and years later when I wanted a T Bird I could only afford the Epi. After loving the T Bird, but hating the mediocrity of the Epi I wanted nothing but a Gibson bird (week 2 of Epi ownership! Haha). When I had enough money for a Gibson, I played everything else I could find... MIA P, J, EB-0, EB-3, LP Bass, etc. Everything reinforced my desire for the Gibson. Got my Gibson Thunderbird and couldn't be happier. I end up doing jam sessions now and then without my own bass and I have the opportunity to play a MIA J a lot and an EB-3. I do not like the Jazz tone, or how flat the neck feels. I actually love the EB-3, but its short scale just makes it lack that extra... kick. It doesn't feel like you are holding a lightning bolt ready to strike out with rock n roll. That is the Thunderbird.
Either way, if you are looking for "low end growl" you need to at least play a Gibson T Bird and feel what that thing does.
I think a lot of the "experience" people post about with Thunderbirds are from Epiphones. They are completely different instruments.
Gibsons are not muddy at all, but you can get suuuuuuuuch deep powerful tones from it. Like.... soaked panties rumble.
You FEEL a Thunderbird.
You HEAR a P-Bass.
It really is that way, to me. They are opposites (of high-end mass market popular brands).
P Bass has a thick round neck, T Bird has a thin fast semi-round neck. Bolt on vs. Neck through. Bright tones and mid range vs low end growl and punchy mids (with the neck pup solo). All-around versatility vs dirty honest Blues and Rock N Roll.
At the end of the day, it is a matter of what do YOU want to use the instrument for? They feel different, look different, play different, sound different, etc. A lot of people record with a P Bass because its a nice tone that you can mix with and play around with. Studio environment is totally different than live, etc.
Also, your rig will change the tone a lot, the strings will change the tone, etc. It not impossible to get a P Bass real deep and punchy, but its still not going to fundamentally be the type of sound of a Thunderbird. Likewise, you can scoop your mids and highs all day long, but the T Bird won't have the bright high end of a P.
I learned on a MIM P Bass, and always wanted a J. The neck to me felt better... Then years and years later when I wanted a T Bird I could only afford the Epi. After loving the T Bird, but hating the mediocrity of the Epi I wanted nothing but a Gibson bird (week 2 of Epi ownership! Haha). When I had enough money for a Gibson, I played everything else I could find... MIA P, J, EB-0, EB-3, LP Bass, etc. Everything reinforced my desire for the Gibson. Got my Gibson Thunderbird and couldn't be happier. I end up doing jam sessions now and then without my own bass and I have the opportunity to play a MIA J a lot and an EB-3. I do not like the Jazz tone, or how flat the neck feels. I actually love the EB-3, but its short scale just makes it lack that extra... kick. It doesn't feel like you are holding a lightning bolt ready to strike out with rock n roll. That is the Thunderbird.
Either way, if you are looking for "low end growl" you need to at least play a Gibson T Bird and feel what that thing does.
Oh...if we're talking Epi TBirds, I wholeheartedly agree with Spambot on the mud mud mud comment. Epi TBirds are a different animal, though they can undergo a great transformation when equipped with more vintage TBird pickups (and maple/maple Fender necks
+42! Even some of the newer Gibson TBirds sound pretty good, especially in a band context!
I had an Epi Thunderbird and thought it had a lot of tonal range. It could be very bright and crisp all the way to muddy... and all points in between.
The tone mostly came from me and the settings I was using.
What I didn't care for was the ergonomics of the bass. It just didn't feel right on me. But I thought it was a great value for the $$, as most Epiphones are.
The tone mostly came from me and the settings I was using.
What I didn't care for was the ergonomics of the bass. It just didn't feel right on me. But I thought it was a great value for the $$, as most Epiphones are.
I can't argue with the value aspect...and I really do think they get a huge boost from better pickups. You must have found a gem, because I've played several and they've all sounded different shades of @ss to me.
Trust me...they really can change your perception of a TBird.
I think Gibson drops the ball by not making good repros of its 60s TBirds and pickups (though [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] does and excellent job with both and Seymour Duncan makes a great repro 60s pickup as well (if you ask them to nicely)!).
Even vintage Gibson EB-0s are muddy...that's just the design of that huge, overwound sindwinder right up against the neck combined with the short scale. Some people love it...I can't say I do.
I was talking pretty much about the value, or lack of it. These things are super overpriced for what they are.
YIKES!!! You can buy a car for the price of a 60s T Bird.
Try and find a used Bird from the 90s. ~$1000 or less for a B+ condition one. That's what is great about T Birds: to me they look best when used used used used used! (well, any instrument, really).
I def agree that vintage Birds are a cut above the rest, but modern Gibsons have never struck me as any different. They might not have the magical pickups of the vintage ones, but there is nothing to be disappointed about GIBSON TB+ humbuckers. And the quality, feel, tone have never disappointed me either.
Like I said... Epiphones.... NOT BAD. But... don't take the downfalls of an Epiphone and apply them to a Gibson.
Heh, I'm not planning on buying one, just trying it. My favorite guitar shop has I rig I use to demo a lot, SVT-VR into a Berg 412......... That's a good rig. We'll see how the Tbirds stack up.
Also, +1 on the Lull pup.
I wouldn't get a "Lullibird", but I wouldn't mind trying those pickups! Is it a "plug and play" affair, or do you need to rewire for them?
Also, any "return policy"? Dropping a couple hundred coins on a pup that you can't readily walk into your local store and test is a little... well, crazy? I mean... I COULD go off of Mark's huge support of the Lull pups, but just in case I didn't like them in my Gibson, would he take them back (of course this is assuming nothing has to be modified on them to fit, wire, etc...).
I wouldn't get a "Lullibird", but I wouldn't mind trying those pickups! Is it a "plug and play" affair, or do you need to rewire for them?
Also, any "return policy"? Dropping a couple hundred coins on a pup that you can't readily walk into your local store and test is a little... well, crazy? I mean... I COULD go off of Mark's huge support of the Lull pups, but just in case I didn't like them in my Gibson, would he take them back (of course this is assuming nothing has to be modified on them to fit, wire, etc...).
