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P Bass Appeal - a Theory (Mostly Jazz Content)

sigmafloyd

sigmafloyd

May 1, 2011
1,994
675
#1
If for some reason you are sick of P bass threads and didn't read the title - stop now. :p

As I've mentioned before, I'm a Jazz guy going through a talkbass inflicted case of P Bass GAS. The whole "P with Flats" thing has got to my head.

What I find most appealing about the P bass is actually not a feature of the P but something I find unappealing about the Jazz Bass market. There are way too many options. Active vs. Passive...Fender, Sadowsky, Lakland, etc. Yes I know there are active P basses, and the above companies make P inspired basses. However, I think most people would say that THE Precision sound is the sound of a passive precision with flats. When it comes to the Jazz, there are so many. Is the sound of a 60s Jazz with flats? A 70s jazz with a preamp? The geddy sound? The Jaco sound? I know I am painting this in broad strokes, and the same argument can probably be said for P basses. But I think the point is valid. If I bought a 62 reissue P bass, I think most would agree that I would have THE P sound. On the jazz side, if I bought a 62 Jazz and strung it with flats, I wouldn't really get the Jaco/Marcus/Geddy sound. With a Jazz, it seems like there is always more to get, more to tweak. Yes, 'Jazz Basses' in general are versatile, but I don't think any one jazz bass can achieve all those sounds. It's more that those sounds are all achieved with a different bass that happens to be a jazz bass. Make sense?

Overall, I guess, I just don't care for the active 'super' jazz bass sound. I tend to stray towards the vintage end and it seems like the purist form of that is just getting a P.

I'm curious who out there rocks a Jazz with flats and goes for that more vintage sound. I love the look of the 62 reissue jazz, but I feel like if I got it and put flats on it I would constantly be thinking that I might as well go all the way and just play a P.
 
#2
I feel like I'm in the same boat. When I started exploring electric bass, I was into the whole jaco thing and thought I wanted a jazz bass and a clean hifi kind of sound. My rig reflects than as well with a Markbass head and Bill Fitzmaurice cabinet. Now I find myself wanting a tube amp and a P-bass for some grindy goodness. It's all part of developing I suppose.
 
#3
sigmafloyd said:
I might as well go all the way and just play a P.
Click to expand...

Great observations.

I own several Fender Jazz basses, have played dozens more, all in the standard configuration, and I can't really say that I have played two Jazz basses that sound alike. Wildly random and unpredictable, even in the same configuration with the same strings.

The Standard Fender P Bass, however, is much more predictable IME. And flats are the ultimate equalizer for that bass in particular.

So yes, if you are looking for consistency, a well-made Fender P with split pickups and flats is going to fit the bill.
 
#4
I had a 77 Fender P bass that I put Fender flats on and I got bored with the tone. If that is what you are going for though, by all means go for it. Make sure to start a new thread to tell us all about it when you do.
 
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#5
Nobody said:
I had a 77 Fender P bass that I put Fender flats on and I got bored with the tone. If that is what you are going for though, by all means go for it. Make sure to start a new thread to tell us all about it when you do.
Click to expand...

Interested in selling it? I take it that ibanez will keep you happy for awhile, there are a lot of korn songs
 
#6
sigmafloyd said:
The whole "P with Flats" thing has got to my head....

I tend to stray towards the vintage end and it seems like the purist form of that is just getting a P.
Click to expand...

i'd say make sure your choices on gear are a matter of taste, not principle. just because you like vintage stuff doesn't mean you have to be "all or nothing" and aspire to purism. talkbass can brainwash you if you're not careful. it plants ideas in your mind that grow into obsessions like Inception. don't let other people's "P WITH FLATS" mania warp your brain lol.
 
#7
I could never put that much thought into it, but I understand the exuberance level. I think whatever we play, it always ends up sounding exactly like we play it. I've got 9 basses, and no matter how I have them set, or how different the strings are, or how different the way they're manufactured, I go out in the crowd to listen to it and they all might as well be the same bass. Part of that is trying to get similar sounds out of each, part is just the way I play. I hear other people play my bass and amp and they sound nothing like me.

EDIT: And listen to IronLung...he makes sense.
 
#8
sigmafloyd said:
If for some reason you are sick of P bass threads and didn't read the title - stop now. :p

As I've mentioned before, I'm a Jazz guy going through a talkbass inflicted case of P Bass GAS. The whole "P with Flats" thing has got to my head.

What I find most appealing about the P bass is actually not a feature of the P but something I find unappealing about the Jazz Bass market. There are way too many options. Active vs. Passive...Fender, Sadowsky, Lakland, etc. Yes I know there are active P basses, and the above companies make P inspired basses. However, I think most people would say that THE Precision sound is the sound of a passive precision with flats. When it comes to the Jazz, there are so many. Is the sound of a 60s Jazz with flats? A 70s jazz with a preamp? The geddy sound? The Jaco sound? I know I am painting this in broad strokes, and the same argument can probably be said for P basses. But I think the point is valid. If I bought a 62 reissue P bass, I think most would agree that I would have THE P sound. On the jazz side, if I bought a 62 Jazz and strung it with flats, I wouldn't really get the Jaco/Marcus/Geddy sound. With a Jazz, it seems like there is always more to get, more to tweak. Yes, 'Jazz Basses' in general are versatile, but I don't think any one jazz bass can achieve all those sounds. It's more that those sounds are all achieved with a different bass that happens to be a jazz bass. Make sense?

Overall, I guess, I just don't care for the active 'super' jazz bass sound. I tend to stray towards the vintage end and it seems like the purist form of that is just getting a P.

I'm curious who out there rocks a Jazz with flats and goes for that more vintage sound. I love the look of the 62 reissue jazz, but I feel like if I got it and put flats on it I would constantly be thinking that I might as well go all the way and just play a P.
Click to expand...
Hypothesis not theory.;)
 
#9
sigmafloyd said:
Overall, I guess, I just don't care for the active 'super' jazz bass sound. I tend to stray towards the vintage end and it seems like the purist form of that is just getting a P.
Click to expand...

If you want the purest form of vintage, get a 51 P. It's THE p tone.

Bass3.jpg


I don't think a P bass is necessarily the purist form of vintage tone. Is it a vintage tone? Yes. Is a 60's J? Sure! What about a 70's? Absolutely.

If you don't like the active "super" jazz don't get one. I had a G&L Jb which is basically a 60's reproduction and I loved the vintage style tone that I got out of it. When I played it, I did not think "I need a p bass."

sigmafloyd said:
I'm curious who out there rocks a Jazz with flats and goes for that more vintage sound. I love the look of the 62 reissue jazz, but I feel like if I got it and put flats on it I would constantly be thinking that I might as well go all the way and just play a P.
Click to expand...

I have played flats on my J basses before. While flats don't usually work for the music that I play, I will say that a J with flats is a wonderful thing.

I think overall that you're buying into hype. Sure a p with flats works great and others have done it. Just because others say its better doesn't mean it is. Case in point mixing cabs. The standard is a 4x10 and a 1x15. You can have a ton of problems by mixing two different cabs with different speaker sizes but the average bass player will tell you that's the only way to get those tight punchy highs and the fluffy bottom.

I know what you're going through because I went through it before.

I bought this after reading about how AWESOME p basses were on talkbass:

Pbass.gif


I have also bought a ton of other basses too. Find what REALLY works for you. There's always gonna be a thread about why a bass you do not have is currently better than the one that you do have.
 
#11
my fretless squier jazz with rounds sounds JUST like jamersons p with flats (to me atleast), but then with the flick of a knob I can have jaco, geddy, or squire. Once you get all the settings in the neighborhood, its how you play that really makes the tone.
 
#12
sigmafloyd said:
I'm curious who out there rocks a Jazz with flats and goes for that more vintage sound.
Click to expand...

Me for one. Play in two blues/rock bands. I don't ever feel like I'd be better off going for a P w/ flats over the J.

Now - every now and then I think I'd like a P w/ flats as another range of tones to work with, but it isn't because I don't think the Jazz pulls off the old school vibe. There are plenty of recorded examples of Jazz/flats out there.

Honestly, every time I think of getting another bass, I think I'd actually need two of the same model, one for flats, one for rounds.

As it is I only have two at the moment, Jazz/Flats, Rick/Rounds.
 
#14
If I still had a Jazz, I would most likely be rocking flats on it now. But I have PJ's instead (same basic thing) and I use flats. I go back and forth between flats and rounds, but currently I'm using flats on my stage PJ's. Kind of undecided about Chromes, but I do like flats. I also love a Precision with rounds as well. But right now I'm in a flatwound mode.
 
#15
sigmafloyd said:
Interested in selling it? I take it that ibanez will keep you happy for awhile, there are a lot of korn songs
Click to expand...

I sold it in 2001 when my son was born, needed the cash. I got $700 for it, I paid $400 for it in 1999. I could probably get $1400 for it now.
I don't like korn. I won't argue with you about the versatility of my SRX, I'll let Carol do it for me. She knows a little about the bass.

‪BASS PLAYER: Carol Kaye Interview‬‏ - YouTube

She used to play the P bass but chooses the SRX now.
 
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#16
Korn songs...lol! Dude, YOU play the bass...the bass doesn't play you. If you can't get a good sound out of any bass you pick up, don't ever blame the bass unless it's broken.
 
#19
I actually put flats on my Squire P long before I knew Talkbass excisted. So I can say in all honesty I'm not swayed by all the "P bass with flats" talk that goes on here. But I can see where the OP is coming from.

Just lately that Squire bass got me thinking in another direction. Just my opinion here, but I found that I was digging the sound much more than my other three basses that are all "active" in one way or the other. Just seems to sound much more "earthy" for lack of a better way to put it. So here I was about a month ago thinking and trying to decide what preamp and pickups I wanted to try in my old Jazz bass and thought "screw it. I'm getting back to basics." Ordered a set of Seymour Duncan Antiquity II's to replace the active EMG's. I think it's going to sound pretty darned good, if I may say so! In fact I know it will!

Not at all knocking the active/preamp thing either. I've just been in a real experimental mood lately and find I want to get back to more of a simple and basic thing. It worked in the past, no reason why it won't work again.
 
#20
The only way for you to find out is to get a nice P and put flats on it. I am a jazz bass guy...I have 7 of them. I went thru the same TB induced quandry. Bought a sweet MIA P, put flats on it, gigged it enough to know that the baseball bat neck wasn't my thing, and then sold it. I tried again with a 1984 MIJ P that played awesome. During this phase, I put chromes on both my 1973 jazz (you can hear sound clips of the 73' in the video link below) and my 2011 Fender Am. Dlx. Jazz...well...that was P Bass party over for me because a Jazz with Flats is all the lucious vintage goodness I could ever handle. I sold that P as well and came to realize I am a jazz bass guy. Your results may vary of course. Have you tried putting flats on your Jazz?
 

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