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PA as a bass cab tips

#21
Maybe you just like the way the Rumble sounds. The next person may prefer the QSC.

I tend to prefer extended range speakers. So I am usually very happy with a quality PA box. Millions of people love the way an Ampeg 810E sounds. IMHO :vomit:. I am not saying they suck...I am saying it's not my sound.

Some bass players will find this weird, but I am more concerned with clarity and focus than big fat lows. Don't get me wrong, I like fat sounding bass but in my experience turning up the lows almost always decreases clarity and focus.

If you are going to use modeling or some sort of cab sim, I suggest not using the K12.2's bass amp preset. The idea is don't stack two processors that are doing the same thing (I.E. modeling a bass amp).

The manual does not appear to show the frequency response plots for various presets. I would try Monitor 1 and 2 if you have the K12.2 on the floor. I would also try Studio Mon if you are using a modeler, SIM, or IR Loader. Also try the Default setting.

I believe the lowest HPF is 80hz. Many will find this too high for duty as a bass cab. I definitely don't think the higher setting would be useful, unless you are playing in a room with truly awful acoustics. -6dB is listed as 50hz, which is actually respectable for a bass amp. If you want the full low end, select "No Sub."

The K12.2 is rated 126dB continuous. Pretty sure it is not capable of producing anywhere near this volume below 100hz. If you need more volume or more low end, consider a second K12.2 or adding a compatible QSC subwoofer.
 
#22
Marko 1 said:
Maybe a keyboard amp would have been the best choice,

covers a wide range and designed to go lower. :)
Click to expand...
Boom. Its high school again.
8756022.jpg
 
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#23
I'm using a PA cab for years and I never used a cab sim. 99% of the bass sound you are earring at concerts has no cab sim: a simple DI from the bass or from the head.

Work your sound on the Pod Go at high volume otherwise it will not sound good when you will raise the volume: too much bass and muddy sound. And cut the bass (or HPF).

Work on your gain staging between the Pod and the PA speaker. Maybe you are getting distortion from the Pod output, or you are pushing too much the speaker input.

Instead of an amp block on your Pod, try the BDDI model, just that and nothing else until you get a sound that you like on the PA, at gig level. If it's to your liking then try an amp block, no cab sim. If it's not equal to the Rumble, then get a Rumble.
 
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#24
Tanatozz said:
Turns out my set up lacks what I would describe as tightness in the bottom end.
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Bass guitar cabinets are designed with two things in mind:

1) They have to fit in your car, and
2) They have to be loud

What that means in practice is that they lack real low end - they don't reproduce the fundamentals of your lowest notes, even on a 4 string. You may have become accustomed to this - if the PA speakers you have do a better job of reproducing fundamentals of your lowest notes, then rolling some of your low end will make the PA speakers sound more like bass cabs.

Personally, I find a PA with real low frequency extension and output capability to be much better than a bass cab sonically, but not everyone agrees with me. Also, there are a lot of PA's that can't handle much low end - those really need a high pass filter to keep them safe.
 
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#26
Most have said my points already. I will just add this:

Lots of players only use their amp for stage volume, and run FOH for their sound to the audience.

Most players like bass cabinets instead if PA cabinets to play through.

The head scratcher is those PA cabs that “everyone” is running their bass through for FOH, and “sound great” for full music (DJ, music tracks, etc), but somehow don’t sound good when you only run bass guitar through it as your bass cab. I mean, you can’t have it both ways - either PA cabs are the preferred method for FOH sound for bass guitar or they’re not. :meh:

Now, personally, I find PA cabs to not have the tone I like for bass guitar. When running bass through FOH PA, I just don’t even worry about tone - it is what it is. The sound guy can only do his best.
 
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#27
ashtray said:
The head scratcher is those PA cabs that “everyone” is running their bass through for FOH, and “sound great” for full music (DJ, music tracks, etc), but somehow don’t sound good when you only run bass guitar through it as your bass cab. I mean, you can’t have it both ways - either PA cabs are the preferred method for FOH sound for bass guitar or they’re not. :meh:
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Without Subs?
 
#29
Not much to say after all this good advice. Cut the bass for sure, skip Cab Sims for the most part and over compression...

I remember once opening a show for a pretty good local signed band. I had an Aguilar DB750 with an Aguilar 2-10 and 1-15 the old S series. Fender P/J Bass. I thought it was a nice tone a bit heavy on the bottom end but received a lot of compliments. The headliner had some kind of 5 string with 4 1-15 passive EV speaker cabs 2 crown power amps, EQ, Bass Processor of some sort and rack of effects. He sounded awful as it was all mud and over processed and too loud to be heard through the mains.
The opposite happened one time when I was auditioning for a hard rock band. Had 2 Trace Elliot Cabs and a new open box V-6. They were real loud and I sounded like crap, my V-6 began smoking and literally started on fire. I plugged into their PA (a couple powered Mackies) and sounded so much better.

IDK Anything...
 
#30
Tanatozz said:
Hello everyone,
I bought a QSC K12.2 to use as a bass cab after some recommendations from these forums. I use it with a POD GO using bass amp sims and was pretty satisfied until recently, when I had an opportunity to play a Fender Rumble and I was a bit surprised. Turns out my set up lacks what I would describe as tightness in the bottom end. I don't know whether that lack of tightness is something that could be replicated using some EQ and multiband compression? I tried for a while with outside impulse responses, different cab sims, different options on the PA itself, disabling cab sims/IRs (seems to work best) but ultimately I gave up because all my efforts resulted only in making the sound really boomy.
I've seen people here being satisfied with a similar setup so I figured that I might be doing something wrong. Any tips on how to handle that would be appreciated.
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Turn down the bass. PA speakers, especially smaller ones like those 12s, are high passed between 100hz and 150hz. All PA speakers, get muddy and distorted from frequencies below that.


But yes, disable any cab sim you might have going. They're useless.
 
#33
I replaced my Pbass neck with layers of pasta noodles. When laying them up I add wheat paste instead of plain water. They work. The neck looks like maple.

The neck begins to loose sound as the stiffness deteriorates in humidity. The humidity in clubs even in the winter can cause the neck to flex and droop. The action goes south.

My question for you TB folks is should I use some polyurethane or water based gym floor finish to set the pasta when forming a neck? :)
 
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#35
Could just be the data below (from the QSC web site for the K12.2) as compared to what you are accustomed to hearing;

Frequency Response (-6 dB)
50 Hz - 20 kHz

Frequency Range (-10 dB) 45 Hz - 20 kHz
 
#36
Almost all bass amps, including the Rumbles have an undefeatable HPF, probably set around 30-40hz, so bass amps aren't producing MORE bass than a PA speaker. The Rumble is voiced differently. Either your Pod or your QSC have a HPF, so on one or the other set your HPF to 40hz and see how that sounds. Most people in the Helix Stomp thread seem to agree the cab sims sound muddy. I found that mixing the IR 20% wet or less gives it some character without as much muddiness. For a good "bedroom tone" drop the mids at 500hz, which everyone knows sounds bad live in a band situation, but sounds great in your bedroom ;-)

I know you can get a great sound through a PA cab but you have to do the work whereas the bass amp is already voiced. The catch is if you don't like that sound, tough, it's baked in to a large extent. I personally would quit playing bass if I had to play through a Rumble. But that's just my taste, not anyone elses.
 
#37
Tanatozz said:
I've read some people on this forum say that it's a good way to get a nice sound, I haven't actually heard that personally. I still wanted to see if there's something I can do before deciding to sell and purchase something else.


Well, the thing is that I unfortunately could not check that back to back to see the difference in the room. I base my opinion on hearing my set up in a couple of different situations and then hearing the stock Fender Rumble 200v3 in a bunch of acoustically untreated rooms (bedroom, living room, garage). And in all of those situations there was this quality in the lows that I never heard from my set up. It's not a perfect comparison but I'd like to believe that it's something.

Thanks, I'll try tinkering with that and see how it goes.

I'm a student living in a pretty small space playing bass, guitar and a little bit of keys, too. Not being buried in gear is kind of an important thing for me. Happy for you, though.

It might be like you're saying, I'll still try and see if I can achieve something satisfactory before ditching the whole thing.
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I had a pair of QSC K12.2's, but I used them strictly for keys. I played my bass through them and I thought both of my Markbass combos (210 and 112) walked all over them, no contest. And the 112 Markbass 121p combo weighs 13lb less than the QSC.

Like you, I also play bass, keys and guitar. If I had to have just one tool to cover all 3, I would stick with the QSC all day long. I use my Marks currently for keys, and while the Rhodes, clav, etc. sound ok, all of the acoustic piano patches sound terrible through it. Guitar does not sound good at all through the Marks, either. Just bought a Fender custom Champ for that. In my opinion, guitar and keys will sound good through the QSC's while the bass will sound fair or possibly pretty good, assuming lower volumes.

Someone mentioned a keyboard amp. Keyboard amps sound better for bass than keys. I know it is hard to believe, but the consensus among keyboardists is that keyboard amps sound awful for keyboards. Most pro keys players loathe keyboard amps. Lots of them actually use QSC's for live gigs. The QSC's have a much better reputation with keys than with bass.

I don't think the QSC's make great bass amps, but for your application they might be perfect.

Good luck!
 
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#38
Marko 1 said:
You're talking about a HPF on your bass cab that's capable of going too low,

his is a 12” PA speaker that just doesn't produce good lows, not a bass cab, that's the problem.

I'm guessing a HPF would probably "fix" his crappy lows it by eliminating the lows altogether. :)
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Totally right. K12 is more of a vocal monitor than anything. Put one under a sub, then you might have something. But then he probably would want a HPF to tame the lows a bit ;)

Why I still greatly prefer a dedicated bass amp.
 
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#39
Wasnex said:
Maybe you just like the way the Rumble sounds. The next person may prefer the QSC.
Click to expand...

So true. I prefer the QSC sound over the Rumble and I do not particularly like the QSC (as a bass amp).

I also like or love my Markbass combos, but I know others hate them and prefer the Rumble.

It's wild how so many of us perceive sound differently. OP mentions he thinks the QSC sounds boomy and lacks tightness, preferring the Rumble. I think the QSC actually does sound tight and not boomy at all while the Rumble actually does sound boomy. I would have chosen the terms "tight" and "boomy" regardless of the OP's descriptions. This is one reason so many cabinet and amp manufacturers exist.
 
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