PA Recommendations?

[modulusman]

Primarily country, and I can tell you it sounds great. Like I said, I know what I'm doing as I'm an audio engineer. But I guess you know better than me what something will sound like by looking at an equipment list.

So when you were playing 600 -800 rooms they were packed right. My guess is there was about 100 people with maybe half of them actually listening to the band. If you are an audio engineer then you should know that those speakers would have a hard time covering a packed room that size.

 

[modulusman]

no not for 600 people....good speakers for under 1k....and up to about 300ish peeps...depending on the specific application....the mackies also are way more reliable than the Behringer...so you do know right that the was a remake of the SRM450..hence V2...they are totally better than the original....

5k for 1 speaker and only 100 people. someone got ripped off....for upward of 300 peeps the best and most versitile system i have come across is a pair of JBL VRX932's and a pair of VRX918s (or the SRX equivilent as they are the same cab without fly hardware), per side, run off 4 QSC PLX 3002. mind you a pretty penny later you have a system to do any venue and any music and it sounds great...

I doubt it. The ones I owned I bought in2003 or4 are still being used by a friend and another gal that owns a karaoke company has some that are the same vintage that are used a 100 nights a year and have held up well. The chinese version 2 have gotten poor reviews. Those 5k speakers I own I also have the matching subs.[NTS22} I always use subs with them and have did shows with 300 people. Anything bigger we use the JBL/QSC rig.

 

[lowfreq33]

So when you were playing 600 -800 rooms they were packed right. My guess is there was about 100 people with maybe half of them actually listening to the band. If you are an audio engineer then you should know that those speakers would have a hard time covering a packed room that size.

Exactly what are you basing your guess on? You sure seem to know a lot without having any firsthand information.

Anyway, some nights are packed, some are slow. Probably the busiest night with this system I'd say was around 400-450 people. Unless you count the week of semi-outdoor gigs we had recently, busiest night was probably 600 in the bar with another few hundred milling around the resort. But we added a sub for that, so it's not necessarily relevant to this discussion.

 

[modulusman]

Exactly what are you basing your guess on? You sure seem to know a lot without having any firsthand information.

Anyway, some nights are packed, some are slow. Probably the busiest night with this system I'd say was around 400-450 people. Unless you count the week of semi-outdoor gigs we had recently, busiest night was probably 600 in the bar with another few hundred milling around the resort. But we added a sub for that, so it's not necessarily relevant to this discussion.

Actually it is really relevant to the situation. Live sound 101 #1 rule is bring enough rig for the gig. You claim to be an audio engineer if you are talking studio work it is apples and oranges compared to live sound.

 

[thumbknuckle]

I had to put together a PA recently on a similar budget...

Here's where the "B" word comes in...

For just under $2000 (thanks to the judicious use of some GC coupon codes) I put together an all Behringer PA that so far is serving us very well.

2442FX mixer
2 B215D powered mains
3 F1220A monitors
2 stereo 15 band graphic EQ's (3 channels for monitors, 1 for mains. We run a mono mix).

Believe it or not, this system sounds GREAT, and so far no problems. We've used it in a few 600-800 seaters, and one outdoor venue, and it had plenty of power. Now bear in mind that I'm also an audio engineer, so I know how to make the most of it, but this is an example that it CAN be done on that budget. Of course I already had all the mics and cables I needed, you'll have to factor that in. But in my $2000 budget I had a $300 mixer rack that you probably don't need. Pick up an Audix drum mic pack and a couple of PG57's for guitars and there you go.

I do not know what your working definitions of 'very well', 'GREAT', and 'plenty of power' are. I do know this:

If I hired out sound for a 600 capacity room and the contractor showed up with that rig I would be beyond pissed.

 

[lowfreq33]

Actually it is really relevant to the situation. Live sound 101 #1 rule is bring enough rig for the gig. You claim to be an audio engineer if you are talking studio work it is apples and oranges compared to live sound.

I've been doing both for about 15 years, have a degree, etc. You can argue specs all you want, but I didn't imagine those gigs. Now our volume requirements aren't the same as a metal band or dubstep thing, and we don't have to compete with a bunch of stage volume. I'm not trying to shake rafters with the kick drum.

Here's what I was going by when I decided to go with a smaller system. The last band I played with carried 2 2x15 tops and 4 subs, doing a lot of the same rooms. I never thought the system sounded very good, and we were constantly being told to turn down. I decided this time I was going to save the trouble of lugging all that gear and bring the bare minimum. And it works. Takes about an hour to set up and soundcheck, saves space in the trailer. And we still get asked to turn down on occasion.

 

[DWBass]

I've been doing both for about 15 years, have a degree, etc. You can argue specs all you want, but I didn't imagine those gigs. Now our volume requirements aren't the same as a metal band or dubstep thing, and we don't have to compete with a bunch of stage volume. I'm not trying to shake rafters with the kick drum.

Here's what I was going by when I decided to go with a smaller system. The last band I played with carried 2 2x15 tops and 4 subs, doing a lot of the same rooms. I never thought the system sounded very good, and we were constantly being told to turn down. I decided this time I was going to save the trouble of lugging all that gear and bring the bare minimum. And it works. Takes about an hour to set up and soundcheck, saves space in the trailer. And we still get asked to turn down on occasion.

I agree. The days of having a massive amount of PA gear are gone! Everything is so much more efficient and smaller. Our band plays for 300-500 on a regular basis. Using a Behringer PMP6000, 2 JBL 2x15 mains, 2 JBL powered subs and 2 JBL monitors. That system can get pretty dang loud! Although I hate the sound of the mains. Once, we had to rent some Yamaha Club series single 15's, as our JBL's needed maintenance and they sounded so much better! Loud and full sounding. One place is a patio setup and we could be heard several blocks away. Unless you're doing a ton of outdoor events for 500-1000+, I don't see the need for multiple subs and 1000's of watts. Watts mean nothing if your cabs aren't efficient sounding in the first place.

 

[modulusman]

I do not know what your working definitions of 'very well', 'GREAT', and 'plenty of power' are. I do know this:

If I hired out sound for a 600 capacity room and the contractor showed up with that rig I would be beyond pissed.

No kidding. My band played a festival last month with about 800 in attendance outside. The sound was a QSC wideline line-array 6 boxes aside with 6 EAW double 18 subs. I need to tell the soundguy to sell all of that and get a couple speakers on sticks.

 

[modulusman]

I agree. The days of having a massive amount of PA gear are gone! Everything is so much more efficient and smaller. Our band plays for 300-500 on a regular basis. Using a Behringer PMP6000, 2 JBL 2x15 mains, 2 JBL powered subs and 2 JBL monitors. That system can get pretty dang loud! Although I hate the sound of the mains. Once, we had to rent some Yamaha Club series single 15's, as our JBL's needed maintenance and they sounded so much better! Loud and full sounding. One place is a patio setup and we could be heard several blocks away. Unless you're doing a ton of outdoor events for 500-1000+, I don't see the need for multiple subs and 1000's of watts. Watts mean nothing if your cabs aren't efficient sounding in the first place.

Most cheap double 15 PA cabs suck. If your tops are JBL JRX 125s they really suck. If you are using subs a single 12or 15 and a horn is a better option.

 

[lowfreq33]

I do not know what your working definitions of 'very well', 'GREAT', and 'plenty of power' are. I do know this:

If I hired out sound for a 600 capacity room and the contractor showed up with that rig I would be beyond pissed.

Simply put, does it sound good, and am I getting the volume I need without clipping or distortion? In both cases the answer is yes.

And I'm not a contractor, I'm a bandleader who sometimes provides sound as part of my performance agreement.

 

[thumbknuckle]

If you say so.

 

[DWBass]

Most cheap double 15 PA cabs suck. If your tops are JBL JRX 125s they really suck. If you are using subs a single 12or 15 and a horn is a better option.

I agree. I tell the PA owner every time there's way too much bass coming out the mains. So much, we could actually do without subs. I hate them! Those Yamaha's were wonderful sounding and louder!

 

[Stumbo]

The band I am with has some opportunities to play nicer places with bigger crowds and the PA they have now isn't gonna cut it.

+1 on renting a PA/sound guy for a few gigs.

Don't forget, even if your band owns a PA, someone will need to run it during a gig. And transport/load in/out. And know how to set it up quickly and trouble shoot when necessary. It's a whole 'nother thing as far as gigging goes.

As far as used equipment goes, IME, you really have to know something about PA equipment to know what you're buying and if it will work for you. Since most used PA's won't have everything exactly as you need it, you'll then be tasked with buying additional equipment that you won't know anything about which, IMO, would even be more of a nightmare.

From some threads I've read on TB, many bands pay their sound guy a full cut just to run the PA, same as other band members.

Good luck.

 

[BayStateBass]

Wow, thanks so much for the input. I really know nothing about this and that's just been reinforced after reading all of this.

Sounds like we need more money, or just stay with our current vocal PA and then hire out when we need to, which won't be all that often.

I really appreciate it, this is the kind of info I needed from people who are more experienced.

 

[Barisaxman]

I agree. The days of having a massive amount of PA gear are gone! Everything is so much more efficient and smaller. Our band plays for 300-500 on a regular basis. Using a Behringer PMP6000, 2 JBL 2x15 mains, 2 JBL powered subs and 2 JBL monitors. That system can get pretty dang loud! Although I hate the sound of the mains. Once, we had to rent some Yamaha Club series single 15's, as our JBL's needed maintenance and they sounded so much better! Loud and full sounding. One place is a patio setup and we could be heard several blocks away. Unless you're doing a ton of outdoor events for 500-1000+, I don't see the need for multiple subs and 1000's of watts. Watts mean nothing if your cabs aren't efficient sounding in the first place.

I think you're making a lot of assumptions in your post. My band regularly runs 2-per-side EV QRX212's over 3-per-side Yorkville hornloaded subs. This is a big system that gets very loud when necessary, but we don't scale it back unless we are in VERY small rooms. The main thing is coverage...there's plenty of great/efficient tops/subs on the market, but 1 over 1/2 doesn't cover worth darn in the venue's we play, which are basically 2-400. All I'm saying is that "massive amounts of PA gear" have a purpose in a lot of situations, depending on venue and music style...sometimes volume, sometimes coverage. I do know this...I'd rathe have more than enough "rig for the gig" than be running a small rig at its limits all the time.

 

[BayStateBass]

You need more guitars...

Yeah, I know.

Actually, I'd trade one of them willingly for a keyboard player.

 

[DWBass]

All I'm saying is that "massive amounts of PA gear" have a purpose in a lot of situations, depending on venue and music style...sometimes volume, sometimes coverage. I do know this...I'd rather have more than enough "rig for the gig" than be running a small rig at its limits all the time.

I'm not saying 'small' for the sake of bringing a small rig, I'm just saying bring what you "NEED" and also the fact that newer gear IS much smaller and just as efficient today! For an indoor bar/club, I just don't see the need for dual subs and massive amounts of power. I guess it is typical to the styles of music that is played. I play in a R&B, Funk, Soul band and we don't need to be so loud that we would need to have dual subs! Outdoor events are a different thing but a bar/restaurant/club? Nah! Especially when it's US moving and setting all this stuff up! One band I was in several years ago always brought 2 dual 15" subs, 2 dual 15? mains both of which weighed a ton. I'm no spring chicken and it was tasking to say the least to be moving all this crap just to play in spots that capacity was a little over 100. Insane! But hey, everyone has a method to their madness!

 

[BayStateBass]

Just a quick update, we have the chance to trade some of our equipment (unused CD recorder) for a pair of mains and two subs. A band we are friendly with is upgrading to a larger system.

The mains are McCauley? I've never heard of the brand so I was hoping you could help me as to whether or not they make quality stuff.

Included in the trade would be two mains, two subs, and a crossover.

 

[DWBass]

Just a quick update, we have the chance to trade some of our equipment (unused CD recorder) for a pair of mains and two subs. A band we are friendly with is upgrading to a larger system.

The mains are McCauley? I've never heard of the brand so I was hoping you could help me as to whether or not they make quality stuff.

Included in the trade would be two mains, two subs, and a crossover.

Never heard of them but the website indicates well made and pricey.

http://www.mccauley.com/company.cfm

 

[kraigo]

FWIW, every time I need a good laugh I go to Craigslist and read the "band broke up, must sell PA" ads. At the very least, make everyone in the band owns specific pieces of equipment. People come, people go and it gets messy when the PA is owned by the band.

Best of luck.

KO