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PA System: HELP!

P

podiumboy

Aug 28, 2011
330
148
44
Dayton-Columbus, OH
#1
As I stated in another thread over at band management, our band is reforming after a 3 year hiatus, without our old singer. However, the singer owned all of our PA equipment. We just want something that is good for practice in a small basement space, as well as in small club or small outdoor areas. We're just a general, broad spectrum, rock cover band.

WHAT DO WE NEED?

I was never the technical guy in our band. The singer and one of his buddies who usually did our sound knew how to set up our PA. I just helped haul stuff in, and plugged stuff in where I was told to. I know how to work all of my gear for my personal instrumental needs, but that's about it. There will probably be 4 microphones needed.

Also, can anybody give rough estimates as to what this will cost. Let's just say I'm in a better financial position that others in my band, so this cost will be largely my own.
 
#4
If you look on CL, you can probably find a good quality older mixer for less than $100 (we use a Ramsa that I got for $60). The rest depends on volume. We are responsible with our volume level and just run vocals through the PA. A single EV ZLX-12P is enough for practice in a small basement for us. Total cost was about $400 + a few cables.
 
#6
Set yourself up a decent monitor system first. Start with a passive mixer (i.e. no integrated power amp) with plenty of pre-fader Auxes. You can never get enough channels, either. You should be able to find a decent 16-24 channel analog mixer, with 6 Auxes for $500 or less.

Each pre-fader Aux can be a different monitor mix - maybe 3 across the front & 1 for the drummer, etc. Get an EQ for each Aux/monitor mix. Powered speakers (integrated power amp) are a great idea & there are plenty that can make suitable monitors or do FOH duty in a small venue. Try to create a great sonic environment for your rehearsals, that you can transport to the stage when you start gigging.

When the time comes, add mains & a sub to reinforce what the monitors are already producing. Most bands do it the other way, setting up FOH & treating monitors as an afterthought. Build that rich sonic environment for yourselves first, then supplement it with mains to "share" with your audience.
 
#7
podiumboy said:
As I stated in another thread over at band management, our band is reforming after a 3 year hiatus, without our old singer. However, the singer owned all of our PA equipment. We just want something that is good for practice in a small basement space, as well as in small club or small outdoor areas. We're just a general, broad spectrum, rock cover band.

WHAT DO WE NEED?

I was never the technical guy in our band. The singer and one of his buddies who usually did our sound knew how to set up our PA. I just helped haul stuff in, and plugged stuff in where I was told to. I know how to work all of my gear for my personal instrumental needs, but that's about it. There will probably be 4 microphones needed.

Also, can anybody give rough estimates as to what this will cost. Let's just say I'm in a better financial position that others in my band, so this cost will be largely my own.
Click to expand...

It sounds like all you really need is any one of the typical two speaker stand type PA's - either with powered (active) PA speakers or a powered mixer (one or the other), along with a couple of floor monitors, mic's, stands, and cable.
 
#8
Joe Louvar said:
It sounds like all you really need is any one of the typical two speaker stand type PA's - either with powered (active) PA speakers or a powered mixer (one or the other), along with a couple of floor monitors, mic's, stands, and cable.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this, if you got money to burn.

Monitors are nice to have but you can get away without in small bars. The powered pa cabs with the wedge shape can be retasked to monitors if you move up in the world.
 
#10
I have gotten a WHOLE LOT of life, real honest gigging life across five different bands, out of a Yamaha powered PA head, two of their 12" mains and two of their 12" floor monitors. You'll spend about $1500 for that stuff brand new, and you'll of course need cables and stands and stuff. This kind of gear sells used for about half or less than it cost new, so look around and get yourself a deal.

I wouldn't get too hung up on going big right yet. I've found that most venues where you need than this will have sound provided. I've played a lot of the gigs that are just like you've described - bars, small outdoor places and rehearsals. The Yamaha stuff has never ever let me down. It's easy to use, easy to set up, easy to transport.
 
#12
Bufalo said:
I have gotten a WHOLE LOT of life, real honest gigging life across five different bands, out of a Yamaha powered PA head, two of their 12" mains and two of their 12" floor monitors. You'll spend about $1500 for that stuff brand new, and you'll of course need cables and stands and stuff. This kind of gear sells used for about half or less than it cost new, so look around and get yourself a deal.

I wouldn't get too hung up on going big right yet. I've found that most venues where you need than this will have sound provided. I've played a lot of the gigs that are just like you've described - bars, small outdoor places and rehearsals. The Yamaha stuff has never ever let me down. It's easy to use, easy to set up, easy to transport.
Click to expand...

^^this.

Most places you play bigger than this p.a. can handle....will probably have sound already.

We do just fine with three small monitors, two carvin mains, and our powered peavey mixer. It covers 90% of our shows. Another 5% we bring in two more mains, and a seperate amp and two subs. The last 5% has sound already.
 
#13
Another here saying go used and find a 6 or 8 channel powered mixer with a built in reverb, two 12+tweet mains on stands and two 10 or 12+tweet monitor wedges to set in the front.

That's enough to handle any rehearsal or small bar gig. Just make sure the mixer has enough patch points to expand when needed. Need to at least be able to run an out to a crossover, poweramp and sub, patch in another small board when needed, be able to patch out to run more monitor mixes if needed and/or insert more eq and effects.

This way, look at $1000 or so to get started going used and being able to add to it when needed.

Powered speakers are all the rage now for small setups but they will cost you a good deal more.

Some people will say jump straight to 16 or more channels and individual monitor mixes and stuff but truth is, you don't need all that for small stuff. Plus it'll be more expensive and more hassle.

Some will say go IEM but those ain't cheap either and come with their own set of hassles.


Basically, start simple and learn how to run it well, then make educated purchases on additions/add-ons/replacements. Buy your starter kit used and you'll be able to get most of your money back out of it when/if you grow or upgrade.

A simple system with few knobs run by somebody who knows what they're doing will sound better than a complicated system with lots of knobs run by somebody who doesn't every single time. So.....your brain and ears are the most important part of the system and you already got those, so....keep it simple, get good, then expand and grow wisely. I lost count already of how many people I've met who think more gadgets and more knobs will fix their sound when they're already not making intelligent use of what they got.

Your description is the type of gigs where your PA will be primarily vocals, maybe an acoustic guitar or keyboard, with the backline carrying the rest with the help of a little mic bleed.
 
#14
Everyone's suggestions here are good, but you have to decide what works best for you.

Used w/ passive speakers is your best value per dollar. Older Peavey stuff is unbelievably reliable, road-worthy, and cheap.

Passive mixer w/ powered speakers is your best quality/volume per pound, but it means more dollars. I really like the JBL's.

Lastly: always, Always, ALWAYS, get a mixer with more channels than you think you need. If you don't need them immediately, you will, and it adds almost nothing to your load.

More features make a mixer more complex. More channels just add capacity, not complexity.
 
#15
Thanks for all the great feedback, I appreciate it!

I'll see what kind of used stuff I can get my hands on. I plan on starting really small and using money from gigs to reinburse myself. We've decided that at first any money we make it going to go back into the band.

As far as instruments, we'll have 2 guitars and a bass running only through the amps (which can be plenty loud). There will be probably 3 microphones onstage, drummer may get a wireless headset, but I doubt it since he doesn't really sing that much.

How do you guys go about hooking up a keyboard? Is it just run through the PA? We've never had much experience with keyboards in our band, but our Rhythm Guitarist has been wanting to expand his role (he also does a good mandolin on REM's "Losing my Religion".)
 
#16
Keyboard would get a direct line into the PA and put in the monitors if they don't have a keyboard amp. Same for acoustic guitars with built in pickups/preamps. Make sure keyboard isn't sending loud, low bass synth that'll shred your vocal monitors.
 

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