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PA System with Bass?
- Thread starter Bass Boy J
- Start date
This is the inventory of my guitar center for PA systems https://www.guitarcenter.com/Cedar-Rapids?N=19616#narrowSideBarj
Which of these would work?
Also, could I use just a preamp(such as a Sansamp) as the head, or would I need an actual bass amplifier head?
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,977
- 5
- 220,730
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
This would work as good as anything but you do need a bass amp and reasonable expectations. They have two of them, both would work quite well IMO. Figure about 150-200 watts RMS per cabinet regardless of the published ratings.
This would work as good as anything but you do need a bass amp and reasonable expectations. They have two of them, both would work quite well IMO. Figure about 150-200 watts RMS per cabinet regardless of the published ratings.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,977
- 5
- 220,730
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
If you want to use just a pedal preamp, then you will need a powered speaker and for one that has enough performance you are looking at considerably more money.
Why not look at a real bass amp? It would save you from reinventing the wheel.
Why not look at a real bass amp? It would save you from reinventing the wheel.
It depends on what you like and desire in tone......I've played Top 40, funk, and dance music most of my life where transparency is optimal for me so, yes, it can certainly work........however, I'm now playing heavier music and cleanliness of transparency doesn't cut it for me with heavy music so, no, not optimal in my current situation
I have a set of Carvin 3way PA speakers, and a set of old Audio Centron 3way PA speakers....have used them both many times in a pinch...the Carvins sound fantastic, and the AC's are fine as long as I dont over power them
I agree with agedhorse. I use to use unpowered PA speakers because at that time, they were available to me and mostly with a regular bass head. The good EV cabs weighted about 100lbs and dinosaurs by todays standards. When I used the small Peaveys, it was before light weight NEO cabinets, and I had them for PA use too. My current bass amps and cab are lighter, more powerful, and sound better, for bass, so I do not see myself going back.
Is there any other reason you are considering using a PA speaker? Because if it is cost, I don't see that being effective.
I think horses for courses.
I’ve tried several PA speakers with a preamp including bi-amping into sub and top box, the better the speakers, the better the sound.
However... it is a really clean sound and doesn’t have the personality of a bass amp/speaker. So for amp gigs I use amps and bass speakers of various sizes and power and for IEM gigs I just use the preamp into FOH.
Your needs may be different, but I can say that even with FOH support my signal is pre EQ so the amp in this case is only for me to hear. I do put on the wireless and venture out the front during sound check so that I know the bass sits well and sounds good, the venues we work have my settings on the board after 20 years so the sound guy knows what I like.
The only way to find out is to try it live and see if it fits the bill. Sometimes those clean sounds can get lost in a dense mix.
I’ve tried several PA speakers with a preamp including bi-amping into sub and top box, the better the speakers, the better the sound.
However... it is a really clean sound and doesn’t have the personality of a bass amp/speaker. So for amp gigs I use amps and bass speakers of various sizes and power and for IEM gigs I just use the preamp into FOH.
Your needs may be different, but I can say that even with FOH support my signal is pre EQ so the amp in this case is only for me to hear. I do put on the wireless and venture out the front during sound check so that I know the bass sits well and sounds good, the venues we work have my settings on the board after 20 years so the sound guy knows what I like.
The only way to find out is to try it live and see if it fits the bill. Sometimes those clean sounds can get lost in a dense mix.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
As others have said, it depends. I've used an inexpensive Kustom 15" monitor cab for some rehearsals - kept up with two guitar combos and a moderate drummer no problem. But it's not an optimal choice.
Be careful that you don’t articulate your playing to accommodate the cab. So you don’t stress it by plucking too vigorously.
Can you play Rocco Prestia like through it? If not I’d pass. A lowly bass amp can take that treatment. You don’t have to be doing T of P. Your rig should do what ever you throw at it. Grand Funk or Michael Manring. You’re not asking for much with modern gear. Stay out of GC, read reviews and get some barely used pro gear. Done. If it isn’t perfect sell for close what you paid for it. Try something else. OMG gas!
Can you play Rocco Prestia like through it? If not I’d pass. A lowly bass amp can take that treatment. You don’t have to be doing T of P. Your rig should do what ever you throw at it. Grand Funk or Michael Manring. You’re not asking for much with modern gear. Stay out of GC, read reviews and get some barely used pro gear. Done. If it isn’t perfect sell for close what you paid for it. Try something else. OMG gas!
Yes, that Carvin LS1503, modified by Dave Green, was a big hit with bass players here.
I used to use powered PA cabs when I played guitar and with stuff like the Kemper and Helix it sounded great. When I started with the bass I couldn't get really good bass tones out of the loudspeakers I had and when I looked into getting something better I realized that just getting an amp and a cab was cheaper and sounded much better. Also note that for many situations a combo amp with a 12" speaker can get the job done.
But if you are definitely against investing in an amp/cab or combo, I would suggest you leapfrog the loudspeaker solution and go straight to an In Ear Monitor solution. As much as I personally hate IEMs, it is the wave of the future.
But if you are definitely against investing in an amp/cab or combo, I would suggest you leapfrog the loudspeaker solution and go straight to an In Ear Monitor solution. As much as I personally hate IEMs, it is the wave of the future.
Except for the QSC K12's the rest are just cheap portable pole top boxes best for speech, vocals, some guitar or program music. You would want to add the Sub box to them also.
Not worth it unless your expectations as well as volume is low.
Not true, the Yamaha DXR15 can handle it as well. Superior to the QSC K12.2 in the lows, one of the few tops that can get by without a sub if need be. Loud as hell, sounds massive for a 115 top, and will likely give any 115 or 210 combo a run for its money from what I was hearing. The new MKII DXRs have upgraded 1.75 vc horns, so they are a match for the midrange detail of the QSC stuff. The DXR15 has impressive midrange for a 2 way pa top and is the closest pa top I've heard to the feel and impact of a bass amp (with a preamp and impulse response feeding it of course). Manageable weight too, only a little heavier then the K12.2
The powered cabs like the QSC K series are not weak on bass.
Read the measurements on and off axis that QSC publishes with charts. They take take these in an anechoic chamber and rotate the cabinet horizontal and vertically. The response is targeted to be accurate including the mids. People hear the mids more and think they lack bass. It is an auditory illusion that they lack bass. It's been proven time and time again that accurate speakers are what most people prefer.
Low bass is omni anyhow and is more dependent on the room for any speaker. If you need "More Power" for a large room then the mids are adequately covered by powered QSC and other major brand cabs and you can simply add a sub to make up for what the room lacks.
Bass cabinets and cheap PA cabs don't publish the measurements because they wouldn't like what they actually say. QSC and other major brands actually do publish their powered PA cabinet measurements and charts.
Read the measurements on and off axis that QSC publishes with charts. They take take these in an anechoic chamber and rotate the cabinet horizontal and vertically. The response is targeted to be accurate including the mids. People hear the mids more and think they lack bass. It is an auditory illusion that they lack bass. It's been proven time and time again that accurate speakers are what most people prefer.
Low bass is omni anyhow and is more dependent on the room for any speaker. If you need "More Power" for a large room then the mids are adequately covered by powered QSC and other major brand cabs and you can simply add a sub to make up for what the room lacks.
Bass cabinets and cheap PA cabs don't publish the measurements because they wouldn't like what they actually say. QSC and other major brands actually do publish their powered PA cabinet measurements and charts.
Agreed. The QSC is good stuff and if not for the yamaha DXR15 I would have grabbed a K12.2 instead. The Yamaha blew it away. That DXR15 is a hell of a powered speaker. My guitarist couldn't stop raving about it in rehearsal today.
It`s like most things, if you buy decent gear it will do the job. I use a RCF 715 and on the 2 occasions I managed to use it before you know what, it was fine. We are going back into the studio in the next couple of days where it`s going to get a damm good thrashing so I can decide whether to stick with the pa cab or go back to a cab and head.
I wish I had actually bought the Yam Dxr15 as it`s a lot better looking than the RCF which I find quite ugly lying on it`s side! Shallow I know....
I wish I had actually bought the Yam Dxr15 as it`s a lot better looking than the RCF which I find quite ugly lying on it`s side! Shallow I know....
How deep do you find the lows. I had read that the low end on RCFs drops sharply around 80hz in order to pair with the subs. The 315 I tried was certainly lacking in that regard. Sounded too tight. Mid range and highs were buttery smooth and detailed though.
ok, so I'm interested in this topic as I'm putting together a small/med sized PA and have been following certain Live Sound topics on TB. I have no strong feelings about manufacturers either way. I'm focused on a full live music rig and not just for bass reproduction ... for which I greatly prefer a bass specific rig (in my case a Mesa WD800 into a selection of Berg cabs depending on needs). I have tried to use PA cabs in the past, going all the way back to some passive JBL 2-way boxes in the 80's, and I have never liked that kind of "flat-ish, monitor clean" kind of sound.
I'm sure the Yamaha stuff is good. right along with the QSC and the other prosumer stuff thats available today. I'm wondering how the the DXR15MkII blows the QSC K12.2 away.
Spec wise they are pretty close:
DXR15MkII: 49Hz-20kHz @ -10db, 1100w total, 700w continuous (600w LF, 100w HF) 134dB peak SPL
QSC K12.2: 45Hz-20kHz @ - 10db, 50Hz-20kHz @ -6db, 2000w total, 1800w LF, 225w HF, 132dB peak SPL
Purely spec wise, it would appear that the QSC out guns the Yamaha in available power and Frequency coverage at the -10 dB mark (Yamaha does not list the -6dB range for its product which may be a more meaningful spec for use as a bass cab), but the Yamaha has a 2dB peak SPL value over the QSC. Seems pretty close to me.
I can see where someone would like the sound of one box over another just from trusting their ears (not a bad way to judge of course), but I'm wondering how one of these boxes could "blow away" the other.
