PA (vocals) need an upgrade...

[4Mal]

qsc k12's are about 1400 a pair delivered in the US. there is nothing as good in that range IMO. have owned EON's, Thumps, PRXs and SRM's. i own 5 of the K12's plus a pair of K10's...

now if your analog powered mixer has a main line out, use the onboard power for a couple of passive monitors to start. Line out to the powered mains. will get you started. add the mixer and powered monitors after the budget recovers...

 

[herbygardener]

Thanks again for the input folks.
When I say "at least 6-8 mic inputs" I am referring to XLR inputs, pardon my lax terminology, I do check the specs though.
I realize (my limited laymans understanding) that power rating is not indicitive of volume; though in this case, would it be louder?
Because that is the end goal here.
We are obviously considering "You can never have enough input channels!"
Bottom line is we are a bunch of older, family folks with day jobs that just want our vocals to be heard when its appropriate. There are no plans for a national arena tour and I don't see it evolving into an Earth, Wind and Fire type thing (although that would be pretty kool). Small events at most and usually just us rehearsing/jamming and playing for family and friends. Everyone has their own amps so no micing instruments. Anything we 'may' ever do that requires a more elaboarte setup could surely be rented/borrowed/arranged rather than taking up our limited resources, both spatial and budgetary.
So I keep coming back to; 4 vocal mics regularly, sometimes 6 and maybe a couple more on a special occasion so 8-10 XLR inputs would have us covered nicely I think. 2 electric guitars, 1 bass and an acoustic drum kit regularly, sometimes another guitar and or keyboard and on special occasions??? so we need to be louder than those instruments which is obviously something more than the 300W/8"1" speaker PA we are currently using.
Isn't the interweb fun for browsing used gear

 

[TomB]

Be aware (you probably are by now) that to get 8 XLR inputs you're probably looking at what are marketed as "12-channel" boards, in most cases.

 

[morgansterne]

our usual sound guy uses peavey pvx p12 powered speakers as monitors, and as tops for smaller places.
These are loud and sound plenty clear to me. only $20 more than then pvx p10's and they are better than the small behinger powered speakers I've heard. Depending on your mixer routing maybe you could upgrade the mixer later if this hits your budget limit.

I'm accustomed to hearing them mixed with subs so I can't comment on their exact low end response. Subs are always good to have if you mic the kick drum or run your keyboards direct. For my ears, Piano and organ sounds don't really need subs like you would if you're playing synthy sounds alot.

 

[MakoMan]

To answer your earlier question - having owned a Stagepas 300 in the past - one QSC K12 would definitely be louder and better sounding. Most other 12" powered speakers in that wattage range would also be louder than your current PA. Obviously though you can cover the room better with more than one speaker and would not have to push it as hard.
Again the key here is the powered speakers. Sure you can start off with one and a smaller mixer to run vocals only. Then you can buy a second, add monitors, upgrade the mixer, add subs, mic the instruments and drums... sky's the limit. That's the beauty of powered speakers and an unpowered mixer, individual pieces can be upgraded on their own and thereby upgrade the whole system. When you buy a system that includes a powered mixer and speakers you are pretty much stuck with that setup unless you change the whole system. You've already discovered that with the Stagepas you own.

 

[herbygardener]

Thanks Makoman, that about sums it up.
We are now looking for a 12-16 channel passive mixer with at least 8 XLR mic inputs and some effects (reverb). Will likely start with one powered 12" speaker with a second to follow shortly (EV ZLX the current frontrunner).
Thanks again to everyone who chimed in.
You've helped edumacate an old dude on some PA basics.
Cheers!

 

[Dp1363]

I'll second that.. run many analog consoles (small->large) over the years - even own 3 of them - was hesitant to move to digital.. Having worked a few digital consoles now (own 1) - and current band runs an X32 Producer and is full IEM using Android/iDevice wireless interfaces - I can't imagine going back to analog.
I you have any experience on analog at all, the move to digital is a huge step - given all the features, etc.

We have a X32 Rack. Would never go to an analog board. The options on a digital board are endless.

 

[Dp1363]

I run the sound for my 5 piece band. My recommendations are:

1. Go digital with the board if possible, lots of options with a digital board. Most have gates, compressors, parametric EQ, instrument presets, effects, and lots of routing options built right in.
2. Get as many channels as you can afford. You will be amazed how quickly you will run out. As your band sound progresses you will run more through the board. You can't be too thin, to rich, or have enough channels!
3. Invest in decent high powered PA speakers. Don't go for junk. Go for power leave yourself headroom, I recommend at least 1,000 watts a piece. EV, QSC, Yamaha etc.
4. If you can't afford new, go used, plenty of people unloading PA gear. Bands break up every day.

 

[TomB]

As long as you're headed down the powered speaker road, here's another vote for the QSC K-series. ...best I've used for a small system.

 

[herbygardener]

What's that they say about 'the best laid plans' and 'an offer too good to refuse'...
Anyway, as it turns out a local shop was having an inventory clear-out sale yesterday, we compromised a bit on what I had stated above and picked-up a Yorkville PGM8 for 160 bones in like new condition. A relatively small investment which will likely move into my own music room if/when we outgrow it in the future.
Yorkville Sound - 8-Channel Passive Mixer
Pretty rugged little unit, seems to have all we need (6 mic inputs tho), can't wait to play around with it a bit.
Held off on the powered speaker(s) for now. Sale prices on new didn't knock our sox off, still looking for used and we may be able to 'borrow' from a buddy for awhile.
So, that's my update for now.
Thanks again everybody!
Cheers!
I better go actually play my bass for awhile!

 

[MakoMan]

What's that they say about 'the best laid plans' and 'an offer too good to refuse'...
Anyway, as it turns out a local shop was having an inventory clear-out sale yesterday, we compromised a bit on what I had stated above and picked-up a Yorkville PGM8 for 160 bones in like new condition. A relatively small investment which will likely move into my own music room if/when we outgrow it in the future.
Yorkville Sound - 8-Channel Passive Mixer
Pretty rugged little unit, seems to have all we need (6 mic inputs tho), can't wait to play around with it a bit.
Held off on the powered speaker(s) for now. Sale prices on new didn't knock our sox off, still looking for used and we may be able to 'borrow' from a buddy for awhile.
So, that's my update for now.
Thanks again everybody!
Cheers!
I better go actually play my bass for awhile!

That's an excellent price on a good mixer with decent effects... should be an excellent start!
Yeah, sales on powered speakers are at a minimum right now. The ZLX12s were on sale for $399 Cdn over the Christmas holidays, but a lot of the sales ended Jan. 1.

 

[DirtDog]

Reviving this thread a bit.

I've slowly been considering my budget rig options and have started pulling together the pieces. Intending to replace an aging mixer-in-a -box and old/heavy passive speakers/monitors PA system.

Got a good deal on a Presonus 16.4.2 a couple of weeks ago. Looks like a pretty powerful mixer yet seems pretty easy to use. Still getting to know it at home right now. Also just picked a pair of slightly used EV ZLX15P speakers to use as mains. Altogether, paid just under $2100 Canadian.

Now on the lookout for powered monitors. Shopped around and don't care the form factor for most I've seen that can do the job but the Behringer F1120D seems like a decent fit, but will continue to troll the used market. Add in new speaker cabling, stands, covers, etc., that'll be another $1K. Already own mics, stands, cables, etc.

So, about $3100 all together? Figure we'll rent subs as required which might be 2-3x per year.

 

[MakoMan]

Well all I can say is 'Holy Crap, that's a damn nice mixer' LOL! Our band has a set of the ZLX12Ps so I think you will be very happy with the 15s. They are great speakers and the and the LCD screen on the back is very intuitive. I was a little worried about the screen at first and now I wish all speakers came with one.
We also rent subs when needed. Overall I believe we've saved a fair bit of money and space over purchasing for the amount of times we have actually needed subs. BTW we use our ZLx12s as monitors and they are great for that purpose.

 

[DirtDog]

Thanks! Yeah, I've been GASing over the 16.4.2 for about year now, did all my research etc and decided this was the best fit for what I want to do. Wanted digital as well as the analog-like controls. Considered everything from X32 to QSC and Mackie mixers but didn't care so much for tablet based mixers and the built-in 16 channel Firestudio interface was a no-brainer. Almost pulled the trigger on a new 16.0.2 but then a nice 16.4.2 showed up on the market. Glad I waited.

I had the ZLX15s running in the store for a while today and liked them. The eq they were routed through was a bit mid-heavy but the highs and lows sounded nice. Can't wait to A-B against the existing PA! Yeah, the DSP control seems like a good feature....

MakoMan - I'll look closer at those ZLX 12s for monitors. Might be more than we need watts/volume wise, but the price/quality seems right!

 

[4Mal]

To me the 16.4.2 comes alive with The SL Remote software. Makes life a ton easier getting to the graphic. Also as you have to be connected to a computer (Mac book in my case) you can also run SMARRT and the RtA functions... I was a fairLy early adopter of the 16.4.2 and still use mine regularly on sound company gigs. We actually have a pair of them. They've been good to us.

These days I run a Mackie 1608 for my band. It's a nice little board. The preamps are not in the same league as the SL but they are still decent and the convenience factor is huge...

 

[s0c9]

To me the 16.4.2 comes alive with The SL Remote software. Makes life a ton easier getting to the graphic. Also as you have to be connected to a computer (Mac book in my case) you can also run SMARRT and the RtA functions...

yep, got one of them too.. real easy to work.. and I LOVE the FAT channel setup, etc.

 

[4Mal]

Probably the last season for mine. I'm wanting to play around with an SI Impact 32... The Expression 3 boards sound awfully good to me. To dear for this season but maybe next... I will have had long service from the SL board though and the next gen Presonus boards will certainly be on my short list as will Mackie. Truth is there are some pretty amazing boards in the $2500 street price these days.
.

 

[MakoMan]

The nice thing about ZLX12Ps as monitors with your setup would be that for all intents and purposes what you hear through the monitors would be what the house hears, as you would be basically using slightly smaller, but matching, speakers. We like ours ZLX12s a lot as monitors, quite light and they match up very well with the K12s we use as mains. They are almost the same size as the K12s, but very noticeably lighter weight.

 

[DirtDog]

yep, got one of them too.. real easy to work.. and I LOVE the FAT channel setup, etc.

Yeah, the FAT channel is some awesome engineering and UI design...aside from the main eq being buried deep, it's perfect for what I want/need

 

[Joe bender]

Thanks Makoman, that about sums it up.
We are now looking for a 12-16 channel passive mixer with at least 8 XLR mic inputs and some effects (reverb). Will likely start with one powered 12" speaker with a second to follow shortly (EV ZLX the current frontrunner).
Thanks again to everyone who chimed in.
You've helped edumacate an old dude on some PA basics.
Cheers!

I’m sure you’ve found a solution 3 years later, but for others interested in this topic, I’m currently shopping for a multi-channel mixer and I found that although the 12-channel Yamaha mixer you mentioned has only has 6 XLR inputs, female XLR to 1/4” male adapters are available and only $7.00 for oxygen-free-copper good ones. I’m going with that Yamaha mixer.