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Pairing a 1x10 with a 1x12
- Thread starter Yogi Bear
- Start date
Yes, ignore the 18. That only goes on the big gigs
I actually run it bi-amped-real bi-amp with stereo amp and electronic crossover.
Highs into the David Eden CX 110, lows into the Aguilar GS 112.
I been doing this for years
Speaker performance is a combination of so many factors...... I'm no expert but AFAIK the actual size of a speaker cone mainly influences two things:
1) Vas (Speaker area multiplied by Xmax gives ammount of air moved.)
2) Off axis frequency response and beaming
Other than that, the speaker diameters means much less than magnet strength, resonant frequency and box tuning.
In the same way that "Heavy cars are slow, light Cars are Fast" is not true.
The external dimensions of a car do not immediatly inform you of it's acceleration and top speed.
Some small vehicles are slow (Smaart cars). Some small vehicles are fast becuase they have big motors. (Racing Bikes)
Some heavy vehicles are slow (18 wheelers). Some heavy vehicles are fast (BENTLEY MULSANNE).
I have done this with Accugroove Tri-112 and Tri110 driven by a GK MB800. Sounded really really good! It was a very flexible stack. I could use the 112 for some gigs, the 110 for smaller gigs, and both cabs for larger clubs and even outdoors.
As others have said, it's hard to determine how a given combination of cabs will sound until you try it. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.
As others have said, it's hard to determine how a given combination of cabs will sound until you try it. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.
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Nevertheless if you chart fs, for example against cone area you see a strong trend.
There's also the point that, although there are plenty of outliers, how much market would there be for say, an 18 that sounded just like a typical 10? Reckon customers buying 4*10 cabs mostly want something that is not outside the general range of 4*10 sounds, and customers wanting 1*15s will generally want something of that style.
I run an EA Doubler V1 with a Wizzy 10 (250w) and a Wizzy 12 MLine (200w). Different power ratings and 2 ohms so I go gently and I’d love for a bit more power - but tone...
The Wizzy 12 MLine is a pretty deep sounding cab and the 10 has a bit of sizzle mixed with some solid drive. This combo works particularly well for EUB and was a bit thin with my Jazz bass but is lovely with my PJ. I really love the sound of it, think they complement each other beautifully and have received many complements.
My issue is when things get a bit too loud if the cabs are mismatched in power ratings it can be very easy to not hear that (in my case the lower powered 12”) is starting to get a bit fluffy. I haven’t needed to flog this rig but I think I’d do damage if I had to play loud a lot, I’d probably end up upgrading the speakers to a matched set with more power like the new EA NL112.
The Wizzy 12 MLine is a pretty deep sounding cab and the 10 has a bit of sizzle mixed with some solid drive. This combo works particularly well for EUB and was a bit thin with my Jazz bass but is lovely with my PJ. I really love the sound of it, think they complement each other beautifully and have received many complements.
My issue is when things get a bit too loud if the cabs are mismatched in power ratings it can be very easy to not hear that (in my case the lower powered 12”) is starting to get a bit fluffy. I haven’t needed to flog this rig but I think I’d do damage if I had to play loud a lot, I’d probably end up upgrading the speakers to a matched set with more power like the new EA NL112.
- Jan 28, 2009
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- Owner: Moonshine Custom Guitars
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
The diameter of the driver doesn't even factor into the various phase response equations, just the driver's electro-acoustic properties. Thus, drivers with complementary acoustic response tend to sum together well and work as a combination well no matter what the size.
Power handling is a function of many parameters and variables taken together.
Diameter alone is only one factor in beaming, there are other factors that can influence a speaker's polar pattern. Designers often consider this and address it when developing mid voicing.
Power handling is a function of many parameters and variables taken together.
Diameter alone is only one factor in beaming, there are other factors that can influence a speaker's polar pattern. Designers often consider this and address it when developing mid voicing.
It depends on the actual cabs. Some will be nice together, others not so much. No way of knowing until you try.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,051
- 5
- 221,011
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
CosmicRay
Supporting Member
Sure, I combine my Genzler BA10 and BA12 all the time. But you already knew that 
.
Here's my highly unscientific approach. If you have a single cabinet whose sound you really like but you just want more of it, then get another of that model and run them together. If you are not entirely satisfied with the sound of an existing cabinet and can identify what about it you would like from a different cabinet, then seek out that different cabinet and use it instead. If you want to complement the sound of an existing cabinet with something that sounds different, then consider using what you have combined with a different cabinet.
In my case, I already had a Genzler BA10, which was great for small to medium jazz gigs on upright bass, but it wasn't supplying what I needed for electric bass and louder gigs. Getting the BA12 gave me the additional options of using the BA12 by itself or combining the 10 and the 12. I play upright bass and 4, 5, and 6 string electric basses, in various musical settings and different kinds of venues. I use the 10 by itself, the 12 by itself, and the 10 and 12 together. I found that using the 10 and the 12 together give me a combined sound that I don't get from either cabinet individually, and it's a sound that I really enjoy hearing. Coming from the same manufacturer and being in the same series, they share some similar design characteristics, like the array speakers, but, to me, their individualized sounds are quite different. Together, the sound is sublime.
I think of running two different cabinets more like having a three way cabinet that is modular. For years, I played AccuGroove cabinets, which are generally three-way (at least) cabinets. As much as I like the sound of a three way cabinet, some are big, heavy, and a hassle to move around. They can also be overkill for a lot of the gigs I now play. For louder gigs, I would rather move two smaller cabinets than one big one.
As others have said, you won't know until you try it. For me, it's not just about the combined sound, but it's also about the flexibility of having different cabinets that I can use individually and that also sound terrific combined. Of course, your needs and experience may vary.
.Here's my highly unscientific approach. If you have a single cabinet whose sound you really like but you just want more of it, then get another of that model and run them together. If you are not entirely satisfied with the sound of an existing cabinet and can identify what about it you would like from a different cabinet, then seek out that different cabinet and use it instead. If you want to complement the sound of an existing cabinet with something that sounds different, then consider using what you have combined with a different cabinet.
In my case, I already had a Genzler BA10, which was great for small to medium jazz gigs on upright bass, but it wasn't supplying what I needed for electric bass and louder gigs. Getting the BA12 gave me the additional options of using the BA12 by itself or combining the 10 and the 12. I play upright bass and 4, 5, and 6 string electric basses, in various musical settings and different kinds of venues. I use the 10 by itself, the 12 by itself, and the 10 and 12 together. I found that using the 10 and the 12 together give me a combined sound that I don't get from either cabinet individually, and it's a sound that I really enjoy hearing. Coming from the same manufacturer and being in the same series, they share some similar design characteristics, like the array speakers, but, to me, their individualized sounds are quite different. Together, the sound is sublime.
I think of running two different cabinets more like having a three way cabinet that is modular. For years, I played AccuGroove cabinets, which are generally three-way (at least) cabinets. As much as I like the sound of a three way cabinet, some are big, heavy, and a hassle to move around. They can also be overkill for a lot of the gigs I now play. For louder gigs, I would rather move two smaller cabinets than one big one.
As others have said, you won't know until you try it. For me, it's not just about the combined sound, but it's also about the flexibility of having different cabinets that I can use individually and that also sound terrific combined. Of course, your needs and experience may vary.
But that's the point. If you were starting from scratch, would it be a better bet to get two matching 1x12s (or two matching 1x10s), or would it be a better bet to get one of each? To me it's a no-brainer: Get two matching cabs and be sure. And if you already have a 1x12 or a 1x10, it's also a no-brainer: Get a second cab matching the one you have. I just don't see any good reason to do otherwise.
That's exactly why I like my 110+115 setup; to me, they sound better together than on their own, each one's strengths addressing the weaknesses of the other. But at home or at a small gig or rehearsal, I can just schlep a 23 lb. one-foot cube, which is nice and handy.
Speaking of unusual pairings, I know a player who gigs with a 112 on top of a horizontal 210. Odd, but it sounds good. You just never know!
If one is ordering online, I think you're absolutely right. But if one is auditioning cabs, why not try an assortment and see what tickles the ear?
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- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,051
- 5
- 221,011
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Or just as likely, knowing the designer, that the 110 and the 112 work very well together so starting from scratch, maybe this is a better choice for the OP.
