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Palmer PDI-09 vs. Heil PR40 - (AUDIO)

P-oddz

P-oddz

Apr 7, 2009
2,238
1,575
Milwaukee, WI
www.midwestdeathrattle.com
#1
I've seen a lot of posts regarding questions about the Palmer Junction and how it can be a solution for tube amps not equipped with a DI for getting a live or recording sound - but audio seems to be very non-existent. SO that's where I come in. I did a shootout (if you will) comparing the difference to a closely mic'ed cab with a Heil PR40, and then a rundown of the Palmer's three speaker sim modes (mellow, normal, bright) to show how the Palmer sounds, whether good/bad or ugly. It is not a magic box by any stretch, but does take a pretty decent line out of a tube amp, maintaining your tone for the most part, especially if you incorporate effects and would rather send that to the front of the house than a flat DI directly from the bass.

My setup:
Orange AD200B, with OBC115 cab. Bass is an AV62 Reissue Jazz.

Each set of breakdowns goes like this:
1. PR40 (close mic'ed - about an inch off of the grill and positioned slightly off axis just below the center of the speaker).
2. Mellow setting on the Palmer PDI-09 (in my opinion the best sounding application for my testing) directly from the head
3. Normal setting on Palmer
4. Bright setting on Palmer
5. Mellow setting on Palmer with slight EQ adjustment sitting in context with drums and a guitar line (something cheesy I made up ;))

It repeats this first set of five on just clean bass signal, then five with an overdrive (Zvex Distortron), then five with a fuzz (Earthquaker Devices Dirt Transmitter). First set of three chunks (clean, OD, fuzz) is played with fingers, second second set is with a pick.

https://soundcloud.com/thunderbeard-2/palmer-vs-pr40


Hopefully I haven't confused anyone, and hopefully you don't get bored by the repetition. What do you think?
 
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#2
P-oddz said:
I've seen a lot of posts regarding questions about the Palmer Junction and how it can be a solution for tube amps not equipped with a DI for getting a live or recording sound - but audio seems to be very non-existent. SO that's where I come in. I did a shootout (if you will) comparing the difference to a closely mic'ed cab with a Heil PR40, and then a rundown of the Palmer's three speaker sim modes (mellow, normal, bright) to show how the Palmer sounds, whether good/bad or ugly. It is not a magic box by any stretch, but does take a pretty decent line out of a tube amp, maintaining your tone for the most part, especially if you incorporate effects and would rather send that to the front of the house than a flat DI directly from the bass.

My setup:
Orange AD200B, with OBC115 cab. Bass is an AV62 Reissue Jazz.

Each set of breakdowns goes like this:
1. PR40 (close mic'ed - about an inch off of the grill and positioned slightly off axis just below the center of the speaker).
2. Mellow setting on the Palmer PDI-09 (in my opinion the best sounding application for my testing) directly from the head
3. Normal setting on Palmer
4. Bright setting on Palmer
5. Mellow setting on Palmer with slight EQ adjustment sitting in context with drums and a guitar line (something cheesy I made up ;))

It repeats this first set of five on just clean bass signal, then five with an overdrive (Zvex Distortron), then five with a fuzz (Earthquaker Devices Dirt Transmitter). First set of three chunks (clean, OD, fuzz) is played with fingers, second second set is with a pick.

https://soundcloud.com/thunderbeard-2/palmer-vs-pr40


Hopefully I haven't confused anyone, and hopefully you don't get bored by the repetition. What do you think?
Click to expand...


the palmer is close but this is enough to make me avoid buying it. The PR40 sounds great...and that's why I own it :D
 
#3
I love the PR40 as well.
The Palmer, as I mentioned, passes a decent signal that I still think could be a fair option for a line from your head if a post EQ signal is what you would rather send up front. It does get a little sizzly with distortion, but nowhere near what I've heard the JDI do in taking a speaker load from the head, and obviously is more usable with a slight EQ adjustment.

Additionally now that I've got it, next round of recording I want to try a mix of both (mic and Palmer) as I think some of that sizzle blended with the mic might give a nice presence to some of my fuzzier stuff.
 
#5
Timi said:
Mic wins every time, no surprises there! The Palmer on mellow isn't terrible though, wish it had a super mellow mode to get closer to your 15. Definitely seems to be a better cab sim than the JDI.

That Zvex distortion sounds great, which one is it?
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's almost there but not quite - but also not terrible.

It's actually the Zvex Distortron that I'm using:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#7
silky smoove said:
I understand the intent of this statement, but for the sake of clarity, I'll point out that the JDI does not have an onboard cabinet sim.

OT: Palmer sounds decent. For the "I won't mic a bass amp" soundguys, this would be a solid choice.
Click to expand...

Absolutely- JDI does not have a speaker sim. The reason I went with the Palmer in the first place (as well as your second statement). Thanks for pointing that out again.
 
#8
silky smoove said:
I understand the intent of this statement, but for the sake of clarity, I'll point out that the JDI does not have an onboard cabinet sim.

OT: Palmer sounds decent. For the "I won't mic a bass amp" soundguys, this would be a solid choice.
Click to expand...

Yes it does. The "speaker" button adds a filter to mimic the sound of a 12 inch speaker according to the JDI user manual.
 
#9
silky smoove said:
I understand the intent of this statement, but for the sake of clarity, I'll point out that the JDI does not have an onboard cabinet sim.
Click to expand...

P-oddz said:
Absolutely- JDI does not have a speaker sim. The reason I went with the Palmer in the first place (as well as your second statement). Thanks for pointing that out again.
Click to expand...

Ah, yes it does (check the specs). Maybe it's only on the newer revisions, both of mine are only a few years old. However it's just not very effective and the Palmer is a better option for this usage.

Anyone tried an H&K Red Box?
 
#16
Agreed with those who like the PR40 better. Especially with dirt, the sound of the PR40 was gettin' it while the Palmer sounded...um...direct. Really surprised. Expected better, quite honestly.
 
#17
Hmmm...that'll learn me to listen to this stuff with earbuds! When I pulled out the good headphones, I had a much more favorable opinion of the Palmer. Got noisy on the bright setting, but the other settings were pretty good and better than they came off with earbuds.
 
#18
JimmyM said:
Hmmm...that'll learn me to listen to this stuff with earbuds! When I pulled out the good headphones, I had a much more favorable opinion of the Palmer. Got noisy on the bright setting, but the other settings were pretty good and better than they came off with earbuds.
Click to expand...


I gave it a listen with my hi-fi headphone amp and DAC and it's still too thin and harsh for me.
 
#19
Admittedly, I'm not the best judge of low end loss when I hear bass by itself, but I think it may be workable for my needs. I did write Palmer about it, though, and a dude who has one said he was going to do a frequency plot of it in that speaker sim thread I have going in Amps.
 

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