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Parents with screaming kids...

#221
As EricF said - depending on what "side" you're on, expecting there to be "an" answer is foolish. If you believe that it's always a parent's responsibility to convert an uncomfortable situation created by their child into a more comfortable one and that no other result is acceptable, then prepare to be disappointed 100% of the time.

If you believe that people in general should always just deal with your screaming child and not seriously want to eject you and your screaming child from the planet, prepare to be 100% disappointed.

But if both players involved took a broader view of the situation and recognized that their first reaction may not necessarily be the best way to react - that either getting very angry with the parent/child and going from there - or choosing to ignore the fact that your child is disturbing much more than your own peace and deciding to go into your personal cocoon to save your sanity - and each player went to "reaction B" where player 1 intellectually chose to try empathy - maybe even offer support in the form of a smile and a knowing nod - or if player 2 did what was suggested by someone earlier and announced to the bus that they were very sorry for this and hoped they could forgive her child for being so obnoxious - maybe all of these individual incidents would have much better results.
 
#222
Relic,
You're right, we probably do agree. I was mostly using that as a jumping off point for joining the discusion. Clearly we can't know the entire situation well enough to know whether the parent was neglectfull, or waiting. However, my experience leads me to suspect that, more often than not, these "falling outs" are in some way related to less than stellar parenting. In the situation, it is usually impossible to to know the background, which is why most of us would refrain from addressing the parent or child in most situations.

EricF,
Thanks for filling me in. I wasn't aware of the overall slant of this discussion.
 
#223
Eilif said:
...However, my experience leads me to suspect that, more often than not, these "falling outs" are in some way related to less than stellar parenting. In the situation, it is usually impossible to to know the background, which is why most of us would refrain from addressing the parent or child in most situations.
Click to expand...

Knowing this, and knowing how most things in life tend to go, do you anticipate this changing anytime soon? As much as I wish every parent were fully qualified and capable, I don't believe hoping for that to come true is realistic.

So - we can continue to wish that all parents were good at parenting and could successfully manage these sort of situations to our liking - or we can know that's not realistic and stop expecting such things and teach ourselves how to not allow the fact that there are less than stellar parents all around us to cause us to become equally ugly in our behavior/reactions to them.

One side of the equation is 100% in your control - the other is 100% not.
 
#225
tZer said:
So - we can continue to wish that all parents were good at parenting and could successfully manage these sort of situations to our liking - or we can know that's not realistic and stop expecting such things and teach ourselves how to not allow the fact that there are less than stellar parents all around us to cause us to become equally ugly in our behavior/reactions to them.

One side of the equation is 100% in your control - the other is 100% not.
Click to expand...

About that other 100%...
This thread seems to be circling on it'self every 40 posts or so. I'd like to hear from those who have actually steped into the realm of "not in your control" and confronted the parent or child in this situation.

I went back and read the whole thread (yeah, work is really slow today) and only two individuals mentioned actually doing this kind of proactive "intervention". Everyone else, including me, just sits there and endures it while wanting to pull their hair out.

So let's here from some some "interveners"!

What did you say? What reaction did you get? Did it work?
 
#227
Relic said:
there, that should keep Maki busy for a while:
Link Removed

Now, where were we?
Click to expand...

Thank you. See. I told you I win. :D

pizzawin.jpg
 
#228
upon relfection It seems clear that the parents and non-parents reacted to the OP differently:
Parents :" How would I feel if it were my child screaming on the bus?"
Non-Parents: "How would I feel if I were stuck on that bus like the OP?"

While personally screaming children annoy me (and my wife, even more so),
I suppose the most fair response could only come from deeply considering both views.

Kudos to tZer for pointing out the need to take responsibility for our own emotional reactions, and not blame /empower others for over our moods.
 
#229
Eilif said:
About that other 100%...
This thread seems to be circling on it'self every 40 posts or so. I'd like to hear from those who have actually steped into the realm of "not in your control" and confronted the parent or child in this situation.

I went back and read the whole thread (yeah, work is really slow today) and only two individuals mentioned actually doing this kind of proactive "intervention". Everyone else, including me, just sits there and endures it while wanting to pull their hair out.

So let's here from some some "interveners"!

What did you say? What reaction did you get? Did it work?
Click to expand...

having kids, it's easy for me to intervene. There's a way to do it and a way not to do it. One poster said he would yell at the kid to shut the **** up, another said he would threaten to call the police lol
I was in a similar situation one time in a doctor's office waiting room. As the crying kid (about 3) looked in my direction all I did was cross my eyes, he quiets down and stares, I cross them again..he starts laughing. I start talking to him, he was actually a good kid.
And to think that I didnt have to yell "shut the **** up" or demand his mom give him a punch in the mouth." etc etc imagine that :)
 
#230
Relic said:
having kids, it's easy for me to intervene. There's a way to do it and a way not to do it. One poster said he would yell at the kid to shut the **** up, another said he would threaten to call the police lol
I was in a similar situation one time in a doctor's office waiting room. As the crying kid (about 3) looked in my direction all I did was cross my eyes, he quiets down and stares, I cross them again..he starts laughing. I start talking to him, he was actually a good kid.
And to think that I didnt have to yell "shut the **** up" or demand his mom give him a punch in the mouth." etc etc imagine that :)
Click to expand...

Bingo. The only way a parent or non-parent would be able to have the presence of mind to react in such a productive and humorous way is if they were understanding and showing empathy - both for the poor parent and the poor rest of the room.

(poor: both used to connote pity and efficacy)

Had he gotten angry and reacted angrily, what do you suppose would have been the result?
 
#231
Relic said:
having kids, it's easy for me to intervene. There's a way to do it and a way not to do it. One poster said he would yell at the kid to shut the **** up, another said he would threaten to call the police lol
I was in a similar situation one time in a doctor's office waiting room. As the crying kid (about 3) looked in my direction all I did was cross my eyes, he quiets down and stares, I cross them again..he starts laughing. I start talking to him, he was actually a good kid.
And to think that I didnt have to yell "shut the **** up" or demand his mom give him a punch in the mouth." etc etc imagine that :)
Click to expand...

I've done similar things myself. A silly face or a smile will sometimes be enough of a distraction to quiet them up. On more than one occasion I've gotten a relieved, "thank you" from the parent. I wish my own daughter was so easily amused by her old man.
 
#232
Relic said:
having kids, it's easy for me to intervene. There's a way to do it and a way not to do it. One poster said he would yell at the kid to shut the **** up, another said he would threaten to call the police lol
I was in a similar situation one time in a doctor's office waiting room. As the crying kid (about 3) looked in my direction all I did was cross my eyes, he quiets down and stares, I cross them again..he starts laughing. I start talking to him, he was actually a good kid.
And to think that I didnt have to yell "shut the **** up" or demand his mom give him a punch in the mouth." etc etc imagine that :)
Click to expand...


I do the 'funny face' thing with screaming babies....works nearly all the time.
 
#233
Scarlet Fire said:
Can punishment work? Absolutely. I never said it couldn't. But to use it as the sole means of trying to alter behavior is ludicrous, as so many of the people in this thread seemed to be advocating.
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There seems to be a lot of black and white thinking about the issue of punishment (though not from you) which is about as complicated a subject as exists.

1) It's good -- use it.
2) It's bad -- don't use it

Both of these positions seem obviously naive to me, yet I know many people who strongly advocate for each of them including those who state these positions to the extreme and who believe that those who hold the opposite view are sub-human dolts.

I'm an opinionated and sometimes arrogant person about a lot of issues (I freely admit it :smug:) but I know how far out of my league I am when it comes to understanding the complexities of trying to create competent adults from scratch (ie. raising them from birth to age 18). I'm already 15 years into one "project" and I don't yet know how it will turn out. :D

But I can honestly say I've done my best, so far
 
#234
hbarcat said:
There seems to be a lot of black and white thinking about the issue of punishment (though not from you) which is about as complicated a subject as exists.

1) It's good -- use it.
2) It's bad -- don't use it

Both of these positions seem obviously naive to me, yet I know many people who strongly advocate for each of them including those who state these positions to the extreme and who believe that those who hold the opposite view are sub-human dolts.

I'm an opinionated and sometimes arrogant person about a lot of issues (I freely admit it :smug:) but I know how far out of my league I am when it comes to understanding the complexities of trying to create competent adults from scratch (ie. raising them from birth to age 18). I'm already 15 years into one "project" and I don't yet know how it will turn out. :D

But I can honestly say I've done my best, so far
Click to expand...

I use this knowledge - that there's not a definitive conclusion on what behavior modification strategies and tactics are most effective - to help me know that the goal is not to figure out which tactic to use, but to focus on an approach that doesn't push me to go against my view about how to treat other people in general.

I know kids - especially your own - are not "people in general", but why would I choose to do something to my own child that I know full-well is something I'd never do to anyone else?

I wouldn't have a problem telling someone else when I felt their behavior was out of line. I don't have a problem withholding things in my control from people who want them but don't deserve them. I'd never withhold contributing my ability to help someone who needs it or shirk my duties and responsibilities that are required by others from me - I'd never physically punish another person (life/family threat aside) - same goes for my kids.

I don't mind when someone tells me they think I'm out of line - even yell at me because they feel I've done something completely boneheaded. If they were to put a hand on me because of these things, I'd be forced to defend myself. That's the sort of thing I am teach my kids. That you don't lay a hand on someone else because
a) you're angry about something they did
b) because they didn't do something you needed them to do
c) because they p'd you off...

But if someone is physically attacking you, by all means defend yourself. I've found trying to rectify these lessons AND include me laying a hand on them when they've gone off reservation to be to contradictory to be viable for me. In their mind no matter what punishment I am meting out it's because I'm angry - regardless of how calmly I present myself. If they hear me saying the things I listed above, yet acting quite differently ("don't hit other people, don't hit other people" but then I hit them - how can I expect them to honestly understand the real lesson?

So for me, knowing that "the jury's out" on whether or not corporal punishment is better/worse/effective/useless only tells me that opting out of it is just as safe a bet as those who opt in. The only difference is that I don't have to adjust one of my personal behavioral constructs to accommodate this exception.

And I've learned from these very discussions here at TB that my views are not perfect nor do I feel that others who feel differently that I and find that different parenting methods that include corporal punishment are wrong or bad people. This is just an explanation of how my thought process works with regard to the very complex world of raising a child.

YMMV - But so far, my kids (6 1/2 and 8yrs) are turning out very well (knock on wood).
 
#235
Bruce Lindfield said:
All you say is very reasonable - BUT :

You chose to have children - you chose to accept all those consequences.

All the OP is saying is that he did not - why should he have to deal with the consequences of another person's decision - why have they the right to inflict this on other people? :eyebrow:
Click to expand...

I choose not to smoke so then I guess I shouldn't have to put up with your smoking. Great. Spread the word. I can't wait for everywhere I go to be smoke free. As a matter of fact, I can't wait for everywhere I go to be the paradise that I want it to be. Man my life is really going to get better now.
 

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