• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Passive Mixer/Powered Speakers vs. Powered Mixer/Passive Speakers

#21
modulusman said:
Is this the mixer you are talking about? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/yamaha-emx5014c-14-input-stereo-powered-mixer. In my band 8 mic channels isn't near enough. For a little more money you could get one of these http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/peavey-16fx-16-channel-mixer-with-effects It has more channels,31band EQ or 7 band parametric, a crossover and semi parametric mid EQ. It also can support 4 seperate monitor mixes. Way better board IMO.
Click to expand...

Have you heard one ? My Yam also has sweepable mid. The 31 band would be nice. I use externals, dual 15's as for me that is generally adequeate. THe Yam is also powered withy 500/side into 4 ohms ... The 5014 is available in a 16 ch version as well... When mixing other bands and needing more channels, I used a separate mixer off to the side and brought it an Aux in.

There's a lot of ways to skin the cat. The Yamaha 'pro-sumer' class mixer is one. Maybe not for everybody but it certainly shouldn't be discounted just because it is powered. Sound quality wise it will hang with much more expensive boards... personally I'm close to done carry external racks of stuff. I want in, seyup, play and out with a minimum of fuss and I want all the tasks to be easily spun out to other folks willing and capable of helping. Which is why I went the Presonus/QSC route and spent the coin to do so. The Yam I still respect for what it is and keep it in my rental inventory.
 
#22
4Mal said:
Have you heard one ? My Yam also has sweepable mid. The 31 band would be nice. I use externals, dual 15's as for me that is generally adequeate. THe Yam is also powered withy 500/side into 4 ohms ... The 5014 is available in a 16 ch version as well... When mixing other bands and needing more channels, I used a separate mixer off to the side and brought it an Aux in.

There's a lot of ways to skin the cat. The Yamaha 'pro-sumer' class mixer is one. Maybe not for everybody but it certainly shouldn't be discounted just because it is powered. Sound quality wise it will hang with much more expensive boards... personally I'm close to done carry external racks of stuff. I want in, seyup, play and out with a minimum of fuss and I want all the tasks to be easily spun out to other folks willing and capable of helping. Which is why I went the Presonus/QSC route and spent the coin to do so. The Yam I still respect for what it is and keep it in my rental inventory.
Click to expand...

On only 6 channels. Submixing with another mixer is the hillbilly way to do things. BTW do a search on 215 cabinets and you will find that the consensus is they suck unless you are spending alot of money. The average bar band will not out grow the Peavey mixer I mentioned.
 
#23
Doug R said:
If you guys are moving up to bigger and better, then you're probably going to be dealing with some heavyweight gear.

Stacking big speakers & bass bins gets heavy real fast, even more so if they are all powered units. You also have to run power to all those boxes. And if you're putting speakers up on tripod stands, those big powered ones are especially awkward. Expanding for larger venues is easy enough by just powering-up more units when needed.

However, to expand your system using passive speakers you will need more power amps and possibly other rack units. You can go with some of the newer neo speakers which are much lighter and easier to transport & set-up - especially up on stands. But the trade-off is hauling a big rack around to power them.

I evolved through bigger & heavier & louder for years, but I also had to lift all that stuff - especially when providing the PA for the band. Now I'm older and have scaled down to lightweight neo mains & smaller monitors using a dual-powered mixer. The speakers are great sounding and lightweight, the mixer is heavy but stacks on an amp and is easy to see & use on-stage. When I need a bigger system I can always still plug-in some extra powered speakers from the output line, or even add a second PA. But it's nice not to have to carry all that big stuff around when it is not needed.
Click to expand...

Not sure how long ago you bought powered boxes, but they’re certainly not bigger, and barely (if at all) heavier than passive, and typically very light notwithstanding the difference.
 
#25
modulusman said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but Havn't you posted before about how bad your bands PA is? BTW 250 people is actually pretty good size crowd.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say the whole PA sucks, just the mains :(

On the whole I am happy with the Carvin mixer. It is a nice size. And 8 channels is more than enough right now. We run two vocals, one acoustic guitar, lead guitar (never turned up), bass (almost never used), and one stereo channel for an mp3 player between sets. So still two channels free.

I wish it had inserts on the channels (or at least one) since I want to run a compressor on the lead vocal channel. But I can work around that.
 
#26
both situations have their advantages obviously - I happen to prefer keeping all 3 separate. Mixer - Power Amp - Speakers. This gives me the most versatility and is least expensive.

Here's the real life reasons why:
1. Upgrading - you can upgrade/replace any one of those categories as needed. You can buy used speakers and amp and get a great new mixer then upgrade other stuff later. etc.... Also If you buy a powered mixer, you may have the power you need but not enough channels, then you need to replace two at once.

2. Efficiency- If you do a small gig, you could power (4) 8ohm wedge monitors and a pair of mains with just one quality amp. With powered speakers you purchase 6 speakers each with their own power amp. -- Or with just two amps you could run 8 stage monitors (2 mixes) and a pair of subs + pair of mains. Who wants to pay for 12 powered speakers to do this?

3. Protection - I will not use powered stage monitors. Too many times drunk guitarists or drunk patrons dancing in the front row spills beer on the stage monitors. ( this may not be an issue for you though - Im in Wisconsin so it can be a problem) Also powered speakers are not properly vented IMHO- and they are more likely to overheat and go into protect mode . also Sound man cannot regulate clipping easily with powered speakers.- especially if they all have their own level etc..

4. Break down - If you have a powered speaker and it goes, you've lost a speaker and an amp, its even worse if a powered mixer goes out.

Some of these may not be an issue for you since you are mostly acoustic. Good Luck.
 
#27
modulusman said:
On only 6 channels. Submixing with another mixer is the hillbilly way to do things. BTW do a search on 215 cabinets and you will find that the consensus is they suck unless you are spending alot of money. The average bar band will not out grow the Peavey mixer I mentioned.
Click to expand...

umm, yes. However the dual 15's I was referring to were stereo 15 band EQ's which definitely don't suck... As far as hillbilly, dude seriously strapping a sub mix onto an aux channel is pretty well accepted in pro sound circles. Modularity rules ... I would love to have been able to justify buying more inputs but for my bands, the 5000/12 worked great. Adding in another 12 channel board for the few times I really needed more, was easy and it meant that for my normal band dates I wasn't carrying a monster...

My recent experience with Peavey boards is that they don't sound very good. I vastly prefer the Yam mic pre's... But then I'm not looking back from my Presonus any time soon...
 
#28
4Mal said:
umm, yes. However the dual 15's I was referring to were stereo 15 band EQ's which definitely don't suck... As far as hillbilly, dude seriously strapping a sub mix onto an aux channel is pretty well accepted in pro sound circles. Modularity rules ... I would love to have been able to justify buying more inputs but for my bands, the 5000/12 worked great. Adding in another 12 channel board for the few times I really needed more, was easy and it meant that for my normal band dates I wasn't carrying a monster...

My recent experience with Peavey boards is that they don't sound very good. I vastly prefer the Yam mic pre's... But then I'm not looking back from my Presonus any time soon...
Click to expand...

I guess I misunderstood your post about the 215s. I have yet to see a pro level sound company running a seperate mixer into an aux though. :rollno: I also have a presonus 16.4.2 and a soundcraft LX7ii. When I need more channels I bring enough board for the gig. BTW that Peavey board i mentioned earlier in the thread I picked up used for $299.00. It feature set is way superior than the yamaha you're talking about.
 
#29
This is all good info folks and thanks a lot.

I love the different opinions on this subject. I have decided to take the route of Yamaha Powered Speakers with a larger Yamaha Passive Mixer.

The mixer I'm going with is the Yamaha MG206C. It will give me enough inputs to do all I want to do currently and still have a few spots open if we add more "stuff" in the future.

Now the question is do I go with a 15" and a 18" sub or save some money and go with the 2x15 speaker alone. I'm looking at either the Yamaha DSR215 Or the DSR 115 and DSR 118? If I go with the 115 and sub it will be about $500 more per set.

I read earlier when someone had said that the 2 x 15's sounded bad but I've seen (heard) several bands that use those and they sound pretty good to me - although I will readily admit that the subs add a great bottom end - I just don't know if an extra $1000 is worth that!!
 
#30
bigsnaketex said:
This is all good info folks and thanks a lot.

I love the different opinions on this subject. I have decided to take the route of Yamaha Powered Speakers with a larger Yamaha Passive Mixer.

The mixer I'm going with is the Yamaha MG206C. It will give me enough inputs to do all I want to do currently and still have a few spots open if we add more "stuff" in the future.

Now the question is do I go with a 15" and a 18" sub or save some money and go with the 2x15 speaker alone. I'm looking at either the Yamaha DSR215 Or the DSR 115 and DSR 118? If I go with the 115 and sub it will be about $500 more per set.

I read earlier when someone had said that the 2 x 15's sounded bad but I've seen (heard) several bands that use those and they sound pretty good to me - although I will readily admit that the subs add a great bottom end - I just don't know if an extra $1000 is worth that!!
Click to expand...

Since I have never heard the DSR215 I can't say if I think it sounds bad. One major problem is they are not able to be pole mounted and weigh a 110 pounds. If you set them on the floor then the horns are at waist level and no one will be able to hear them. IMO you would be better off with the DSR112 and sub. Less weigh than the 115 by 15 pounds and almost as loud. They are also $100.00 cheaper. Alot of people think that 12s sound better for vocals than 15s.
 
#31
I listened to the Yam 112 when deciding on the K Sub. I thought the Yamaha 12 sounded better in a 'tight' bass sense than the 18. To my ear the 18 might be aimed at the DJ where the 12 might be aimed at club band... The 18 seemed kinda flabby in the low end. The 12 seemed to integrate better with the top to my ear. A lot of that has todo with the room though... The GC an hour away from my had 2 flavors of Yamaha, 1 or 2 Mackies and the K Series setup on a switch... I was pretty impressed with the Yamaha 12 top and the 12 sub. DSR series ? More impressed with the K Series though...
 
#33
When it comes to top boxes you might want to review the info on the QsC K Series as well. I chose to go with the K10's as their dispersion is 90 degrees. I do some close in outdoor gigs where that is an advantage. The 12's in that series go 75 degrees. Same power so they will kick harder further away. Similar energy being produced but in a narrower space...

It's the beaming thing at work to an extent. The 10 in my box is fine down below the point where the system crosses so for me, it was more a matter of the spaces I'm in and dispersion than it was a preference for 10, 12, 15... For the sub, if you can find a place to audition that would be for the best...
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back