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Passive Mixer/Powered Speakers vs. Powered Mixer/Passive Speakers

bigsnaketex

bigsnaketex

Dec 29, 2011
616
13
Down South
#1
OK folks,

It's time to move up in the P.A. world - I need more sound for my band - as in LOUDER!

So I'm starting from scratch (again). And what I'd like to know from you who have walked down this road is this:

Which is better - a Powered Mixer with Passive Speakers or a Passive Mixer with Powered Speakers?

I understand all the nuts and bolts of this, I've been gigging for a while.........I'm interested in knowing which one you prefer and why.

So please help a brother out with the wisdom on the forum!!

Much Love and Respect!!
 
#3
Passive mixer/powered speakers will usually be a better solution, as the on-board processing takes out much of the eq work and crossover setup needed (if you're using subs). The systems are basically plug-and-play, and you can add boxes to expand as long as you have adquate power. For most bands this is the best solution.

Powered mixer systems work fine for acoustic/small gigs, but really meet their shortcoming when it comes to flexibility and expansion opportunity. If you plan to grow the system at all, stick with a passive mixer. Powered speakers will work with most scenarios, my band runs a big passive system (power amps/passive speakers). That's really up to the individual. In all but the most basic scenario..passive mixer and build the speaker selection from there.
 
#4
Are you moving up because the venues are getting bigger, or because the band is getting louder?

We play small venues, and I like the powered mixer because it is vertically oriented rather than horizontal. We usually don't have much space, so I put the mixer on top of my amp, and other things, such as my wireless receiver, on top of the mixer.

But, and this is a HUGE but, the powered mixers tend to have much much less flexibility. Three band EQ, no inserts, very few busses, etc. Even the cheapest passive mixer tends to be more flexible than an expensive powered mixer.
 
#5
"moving up" and "powered mixer" are mutually exclusive.

The question is really "power amps or powered speakers?" ten years ago there would have been no question about that either, but the new generation of powered speakers is changing the rules for live sound.
 
#6
Well, we play "acoustic singer songwriter" stuff mostly (with some rockers to get the folks on their feet) - we have 3 acoustic guitars, 3 vocals, electric bass and keyboards (a 2 rack keyboard setup with an 88 key on the bottom and a synth for B3 action on top) - oh, and the harmonica and cajon that I like to run through the system. The set up we're using now is powered speakers but they are adequate for a room for 100 people. We have been fairlly popular and have been getting booked into bigger rooms for up to 300 folks and our current system is simply not adequate for that size room- plus I really need a bigger mixer with more inputs to accomodate the mandolin/fiddle and other assorted things we like to throw in there. So I'll keep our current setup for the smaller venues but want to move into something bigger and wasn't sure which way to go. The amp/passive speaker way is a bit cheaper but not too much. My thoughts are that the powered speakers are better on average but I was really looking for opinions from folks that have been doing it for a lot longer than I have - so thanks for any input!!
 
#8
Powered speakers have the advantage. They not only have matched amplifiers but they have DSP to optimize the speaker's performance. To match this performance you would have to get an amp that has a DSP program for your particular passive speaker plus x-over and you would need two amp channels per speaker to bi-amp.
 
#11
walterw said:
"moving up" and "powered mixer" are mutually exclusive.

The question is really "power amps or powered speakers?" ten years ago there would have been no question about that either, but the new generation of powered speakers is changing the rules for live sound.
Click to expand...

Not really. There are powered boards that have good mic pres and are a real step up over the lunch pail mixers. The Yamaha EMX-5000 series are great.

Send a line signal out to powered Maine, use the on board power for monitors. Works like a charm.

These days there are really good sounding powered speaks out there. I can't see regressing from my K10's to any passive top box and amps again...

That all said, I'm now running a Presonus 16.4.2 and the sound quality is amazing... But then it also cost roughly 2.53 x greater than a new Yamaha 5014...
 
#12
4Mal said:
Not really. There are powered boards that have good mic pres and are a real step up over the lunch pail mixers. The Yamaha EMX-5000 series are great.

Send a line signal out to powered Maine, use the on board power for monitors. Works like a charm.
Click to expand...
i guess.

that certainly looks like a big improvement over the "head box" things (i like your "lunch pail mixers" tag :)) but mixers with power amps are still kinda "bottom rung of the ladder", and don't scale up into better systems as well as "real" boards. (as big as it is and it only has two monitor and two FX auxes?)
 
#13
walterw said:
i guess.

that certainly looks like a big improvement over the "head box" things (i like your "lunch pail mixers" tag :)) but mixers with power amps are still kinda "bottom rung of the ladder", and don't scale up into better systems as well as "real" boards. (as big as it is and it only has two monitor and two FX auxes?)
Click to expand...

Exactly and i have yet to use a powered mixer where the graphic EQ wasn't a joke.
 
#16
Wow, a lot of hate for powered mixers. Really, for bar bands they have a lot of advantages. Since the largest venue I need our PA for is 250 people, I [DEL]don't[/DEL] shouldn't need a huge PA.

Seriously, when most of the sound comes from the stage, how much subtle EQing do you need? It tends to be a semi or full on desperate attempt to get the vocals somewhere near the guitars.
 
#17
seanm said:
Wow, a lot of hate for powered mixers. Really, for bar bands they have a lot of advantages. Since the largest venue I need our PA for is 250 people, I [DEL]don't[/DEL] shouldn't need a huge PA.

Seriously, when most of the sound comes from the stage, how much subtle EQing do you need? It tends to be a semi or full on desperate attempt to get the vocals somewhere near the guitars.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong but Havn't you posted before about how bad your bands PA is? BTW 250 people is actually pretty good size crowd.
 
#18
walterw said:
i guess.

that certainly looks like a big improvement over the "head box" things (i like your "lunch pail mixers" tag :)) but mixers with power amps are still kinda "bottom rung of the ladder", and don't scale up into better systems as well as "real" boards. (as big as it is and it only has two monitor and two FX auxes?)
Click to expand...

Yes but these are $750 new and it will get the job done for most bar band scenarios. You seriously have to spend a heck of a lot more to get significantly better. Anyone who has experience putting a PA together knows that it is a balancing act unless you have an unlimited budget. One of these, plus a couple of outboard Eq's, powered mains and passive monitors is a pretty reasonable way to go. I'm picky about how my PA sounds. I was able to get happy with that setup. I did more than a few shows as the sound guy. Mostly I used that system with my own bands though. No question I'm crazy about the Studio Live/QSC K series system I'm running now but overall, the Yam based system was under 2 grand, my current system is Well over 5 grand... Matter of scale an economics.

As far as not being able to scale, that is malarkey... All you need to scale is line out... Snake, crossover, compressor, power amps or powered speaks... Done that as well
 
#19
4Mal said:
Yes but these are $750 new and it will get the job done for most bar band scenarios. You seriously have to spend a heck of a lot more to get significantly better. Anyone who has experience putting a PA together knows that it is a balancing act unless you have an unlimited budget. One of these, plus a couple of outboard Eq's, powered mains and passive monitors is a pretty reasonable way to go. I'm picky about how my PA sounds. I was able to get happy with that setup. I did more than a few shows as the sound guy. Mostly I used that system with my own bands though. No question I'm crazy about the Studio Live/QSC K series system I'm running now but overall, the Yam based system was under 2 grand, my current system is Well over 5 grand... Matter of scale an economics.

As far as not being able to scale, that is malarkey... All you need to scale is line out... Snake, crossover, compressor, power amps or powered speaks... Done that as well
Click to expand...

Is this the mixer you are talking about? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/yamaha-emx5014c-14-input-stereo-powered-mixer. In my band 8 mic channels isn't near enough. For a little more money you could get one of these http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/peavey-16fx-16-channel-mixer-with-effects It has more channels,31band EQ or 7 band parametric, a crossover and semi parametric mid EQ. It also can support 4 seperate monitor mixes. Way better board IMO.
 
#20
If you guys are moving up to bigger and better, then you're probably going to be dealing with some heavyweight gear.

Stacking big speakers & bass bins gets heavy real fast, even more so if they are all powered units. You also have to run power to all those boxes. And if you're putting speakers up on tripod stands, those big powered ones are especially awkward. Expanding for larger venues is easy enough by just powering-up more units when needed.

However, to expand your system using passive speakers you will need more power amps and possibly other rack units. You can go with some of the newer neo speakers which are much lighter and easier to transport & set-up - especially up on stands. But the trade-off is hauling a big rack around to power them.

I evolved through bigger & heavier & louder for years, but I also had to lift all that stuff - especially when providing the PA for the band. Now I'm older and have scaled down to lightweight neo mains & smaller monitors using a dual-powered mixer. The speakers are great sounding and lightweight, the mixer is heavy but stacks on an amp and is easy to see & use on-stage. When I need a bigger system I can always still plug-in some extra powered speakers from the output line, or even add a second PA. But it's nice not to have to carry all that big stuff around when it is not needed.
 

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