PC Effects vs. Digital Multi-FX Pedals

[Maddieee]

Hey everyone,

How do effects through a PC (such as amplitube/guitar rig) compare to floor multi-fx pedals.

I'm mostly looking to use this for home practice through headphones and an amp, and playing live, so latency is important. My computer should be good enough to handle FX fast enough (my PC has a ryzen 5 5600x and my laptop has a ryzen 7 6800HS), but is the latency still noticeable even with good specs?

 

[sloppy_phil]

Hey everyone,

How do effects through a PC (such as amplitube/guitar rig) compare to floor multi-fx pedals.

I'm mostly looking to use this for home practice through headphones and an amp, and playing live, so latency is important. My computer should be good enough to handle FX fast enough (my PC has a ryzen 5 5600x and my laptop has a ryzen 7 6800HS), but is the latency still noticeable even with good specs?

Welcome to the community!

I have always found noticeable latency when running stuff through a laptop/computer. Not devastating degrees of it, but definitely enough latency to make it unusable live. Even with high-powered laptops. I think it's more due to the signal conversion process, rather than the power of the laptop, where the latency is created (but I could be mistaken! Please don't take that as gospel).

What effects are you trying to run off your computer? There's a good chance there's a multi-FX unit out there which could do similarly; the technology these days has come a very long way!

 

[jimfist]

Though it was many years ago, I tried to use Guitar Rig (v. 3, 4 &5 ) on a laptop to replace dedicated hardware effects, but I eventually gave up on it. Part of it was due to changes to the software I didn't like, but mostly it was due to chasing down latency concerns and tweaking system performance. FWIW, things probably have improved much since I did this, but there's no getting around latency from AD/DA conversion, and then the internal processing latency of the software itself. I had a dedicated laptop that was stripped down to only the essential software needed to run things, and even then it was a bit laggy, and didn't sound as good as most other dedicated hardware.

In the end, I did the math on the cost of using a dedicated worthy laptop, the AD/DA conversion hardware and the foot pedal to control it all. When compared to what you can get today in high quality hardware digital modeler/multi-fx, it became sort of a no-brainer. Granted, the laptop-based setup is infinitely flexible and configurable, but IMHO you could just about buy 2 high end multi-fx pedals for the all-in cost of the laptop-based setup. And with hardware, it's ready to go out of the box. No mess, no software installation and associated hassles.

JMHO, YMMV.

 

[Maddieee]

Welcome to the community!

I have always found noticeable latency when running stuff through a laptop/computer. Not devastating degrees of it, but definitely enough latency to make it unusable live. Even with high-powered laptops. I think it's more due to the signal conversion process, rather than the power of the laptop, where the latency is created (but I could be mistaken! Please don't take that as gospel).

What effects are you trying to run off your computer? There's a good chance there's a multi-FX unit out there which could do similarly; the technology these days has come a very long way!

Thank you!
I'm mostly looking to experiment with effects, but a few specifics were compressors, overdrive (Fulltone OCD), and the Ampeg SVT amplifiers

 

[sloppy_phil]

Thank you!
I'm mostly looking to experiment with effects, but a few specifics were compressors, overdrive (Fulltone OCD), and the Ampeg SVT amplifiers

Well, for simple experimenting, I don't see why using your computer at home would be a problem. If there's latency while testing/experimenting, no big deal. It's for live application that you'll need to be careful.

You should look into something like this guy as an outboard multi-fx unit; it has lots of amps and effects built into it, as well as a detailed editing suite that you can access on PC or tablet. And it's not a MASSIVE investment, especially in comparison to some other units out there.

 

[GotGroove]

I have no recent experience with playing live with GR, but for what it's worth:
I used to perform live with GR4 over 10 years ago on a macbook. Never had any issues with serious latency but it came with a pedal board back then which also acted as converter, which made it easier and much cheaper than it would be these days.

Just a note: you're looking at the wrong computer specs. CPU is not that important. I used to run GR4 on a 2.4 Ghz dual-core CPU Macbook with 4GB RAM and it ran great. What's more important is your HDD speed and memory speed. So an SSD is highly recommended for playing live. Also, make sure the laptop is not about to do anything else like scanning for viruses, downloading updates, defrag a hard drive and the like while playing live. You won't be happy if that happens and your hard drive is on 100% capacity. I used to have a separate partition for performing live with nothing but a stripped-down windows with no page file and GR running and nothing else that can interfere with the laptop's performance. Not even an active WiFi/BT adapter. On a desktop all this matters little, but for a laptop it's vital to keep the OS as clean as you can and keep any potential latency at bay.

However, the best way for things like this is to use a macbook. I'm not paid by Apple to advertise their products in any way, but a Mac just does this kind of job 50 times better than windows can with the same specs. And I did try. I already had a windows laptop with the same specs, but it just couldn't do it. It went 100% HDD usage with only 2 effects active. The Mac solved any problem I had or could have had.

I never used amplitube so I'll leave that for others to comment on.

In the end, I did the math on the cost of using a dedicated worthy laptop, the AD/DA conversion hardware and the foot pedal to control it all. When compared to what you can get today in high quality hardware digital modeler/multi-fx, it became sort of a no-brainer. Granted, the laptop-based setup is infinitely flexible and configurable, but IMHO you could just about buy 2 high end multi-fx pedals for the all-in cost of the laptop-based setup. And with hardware, it's ready to go out of the box. No mess, no software installation and associated hassles.JMHO, YMMV.

I can't deny this. There's been a lot of changes over the last 15 years. Back then getting a Macbook (1200E back then) was all I needed (apart from the software and included board, which still works after all this time). But effects are much cheaper and so much better now. And getting an Helix floor would cost less than a macbook, a GR7 license and the required external hardware you'd need otherwise. And you'll lose nothing.

Long story short: In my experience, it can be done live with a good (mac) laptop with an SSD and you'll sound fine with GR. Windows is just horrible for things like this and I don't recommend it unless you're way (and I mean really WAAY) over the requirements. Recording at home should be no problem, even with the windows OS. But I have to agree with @jimfist that an Helix (or similar high end multi-effect) would make it much easier and probably cheaper to get the same results.

 

[Killing Floor]

Post 1. Latency from stacking VSTs.
Honesty a digital delay and a software rendition of a digital delay are pretty similar, for example. In my harebrained experiments I think I get useful sounds from soft processing. If you can control the latency I don’t see a problem.

 

[paskisti]

Even average PC (e.g. HP Elitebook G3) has enough power to run several plugins at the same time for live performance. You need to check that you set the buffer size to low but enough for proper operation. Reaper is DAW taking quite low resources and by running buffer size 196 I can go to 10ms in and out total latency. That is fine for software monitoring during recording or live playing. You can throw in delay, Neural DSP DG or Parallax or both, EQ and compressor and latency remains the same. I've been running 15 tracks at the same time without any problems during my recoding, but only 3 of them having pluging simultaneously. There is absolutely no need for expensive Mac doing so and my HP was purchased second hand for 230e. I use Scarlet 2i2 gen 3 with their ASIO drivers for audio interface. Forget wave out and other drivers with terrible latency of 40-100ms.

 

[FullumMusic]

These days with a decent computer, latency is negligible so long as you set things up right.

I split my bass into 2 channels (One "clean" and one 1 octave down through an octaver) and then run those into my M2 Pro MacBook Pro, via the inputs on my interface, into Ableton Live, and then a bunch of processing and FX and automations on both of those channels, plus other audio channels with their own plugins, with Ableton's buffer down to 64 samples and everything runs fine. The reason i do the pitch shifting using a pedal is because the pitchshifter effect in Ableton causes latency AND sounds like garbage for what i'm doing. Other than the pitch shifter issue, no issues for anything else.

I think a lot of it boils down to user preference and what people are used to. Most musicians are used to pedals and the idea of having an All-in-One pedal like a multi-fx comes more naturally to them than having to learn how to do the same thing on a computer with different software. A well known HX user told me one of the reasons they prefer it to plugins is because they can just put a box on the floor and step on it to cycle through their FX chains for each song. They don't have to bring a computer and an interface and hope all the data cables are working well, and all the extra audio cables are more failure points, and is there a place for the computer and interface on stage? and are they gonna be able to see the screen? and will they have to fiddle with the computer? and troubleshooting a computer if something goes wrong live, and etc etc etc. The multi-fx is a simple box on the floor that does all the things for them.

The flip side, for me, i hate going through menu screens on hardware. I hate interacting with hardware using buttons and knobs. I like interfacing with a computer. I have a background in music production, audio engineering, and electronic music too, so i already have the DAWs and tons and tons of plug-ins, and am extremely at home doing things on the computer, and i have the infinite flexibility of whatever i need to do in the DAW and with my plugins.

So, yeah, it all boils down to which is gonna be easier for you to do what you want to do.

 

[Chrisk-K]

Latency is not an issue on a decent computer. On my 2021 Mac Mini, I can lower latency below 2.6 ms without an issue. However, I find my old Pod Go and Boss GT-1000Core to sound far better than lots of plug-in amp sims and FXs that I have spent $$$&$$ on. The only exception is Helix Native.

 

[jimfist]

To boil it down, IMHO pedal solutions are designed to take the rigors of the stage in general, with fewer worries that something unexpected or weird might cause a nightmare in the heat of the gig (though not 100% fool proof). Once you go into the computer realm, unless you use gear that is DESIGNED for the rigors of the stage (= mo $$$), you need to be prepared for the many pitfalls that could mess things up. Things that don't usually happen when using good old 1/4" jacks plugged into traditional pedals that are designed for the demands of live performance under adverse conditions.

IMHO, it was also of great piece of mind that a hardware solution was just less risky...right tool for the job. Again, YMMV.

 

[gregmon79]

Thank you!
I'm mostly looking to experiment with effects, but a few specifics were compressors, overdrive (Fulltone OCD), and the Ampeg SVT amplifiers

Check out IK Multimedia's newer stuff, the Tone X stuff or the Total Studio. Not sure what your budget is either. Plus I can't say that I've done live performances with an all PC/digital setup so I really can't speak to latency.

I'm just thinking more along the lines of headphone playing. The Quad Cortex and Helix line stuff is awesome for headphoning, live rig use and multi-effects. Great in a live setting as well. But again, no exp with running a PC live with their software.

 

[AK Bass Guy]

If you have an IPad Air or Pro you can hook up a small audio interface and get minimal latency and access to a ton of cool apps and use them live or at home. Using an IPad or MacBook is starting to become more popular with praise bands and cover bands for corporate events. I use a MacBook at home for a small studio setup and only have 4 to 7 milliseconds latency when using an audio interface, 10ms without audio interface.

Really depends on your playing environment if you want to drag out a computer or pad. I wouldn’t bring either to a bar gig.

 

[hooky_marr]

All good recommendations so far.

The fastest VST effects you can get for headphone use would probably be UAD plugins that run on their DSP-powered audio interfaces, like the UAD Apollo, or external units like the Satellite. It’ll certainly handle more effects than an average PC with less latency, plus you can stack multiple DSP units as needed.

That said, most multi-FX units have headphone outs, so it’s more a question of desired quality and budget.

 

[ga_edwards]

Modern, modelling multi-fx devices are basically function-specific computers with a dedicated hardware interface wrapped in a road-worthy case. So many companies' devices and software are essentially the same thing. Line 6 Helix devices and the Helix Native plugin for example run exactly the same algorithms. I believe it's the same with Neural DSP's Quad Cortex and their plugins, and IK Multimedia's Tonex and Amplitube(?)

I'll always use dedicated hardware for gigs. I just don't want to rely on a laptop (no matter how good my Macbook Air M2 is) as my live rig, and mess around with interfaces and controllers. Not to mention ensuring it's up-to-date and optimised for live gigging (just imagine a notification coming through at the wrong time!). It's so much easier to simply plonk my Helix LT on the floor and plug in three cables.

I used a L6 Pod GX interface for practice for a number of years with PodFarm and amplitude on the mac. It worked well and sounded great, but I missed the immediacy of just plugging something into headphones when inspiration struck. I've also tried using the IK iRig HD2 as well with an iPad. Sounded fine, but too much faff TBH, but I reckon it could have gotten me through a gig if I was desperate.

As a Helix user, I got a cracking discount on the Helix Native plugin. I do sometimes use this for recording and optimising presets and it's easy to send presets back and forth between hardware and software.

 

[40Hz]

My guitarist SO uses Bias FX and Amplitube on a high end iPad she controls with an iRig Stomp IO pedal controller. They work ok IMO, but she seems mostly happy with them. However, I’ve noticed she’s pretty much gone back to using her pedalboard over the last year while her iRig stuff has been gathering dust.

If you’re running a DAW on a PC that’s been optimized for music then VST effects plugins work really well for recording purposes.

For live use I’d suggest going with one of the modeling type multieffects units by Line 6, Headrush, and others. Or maybe just getting a Line 6 HX Stomp. Buy once, cry once.

My big issue with multi-effects pedals is that most are geared more towards guitar rather than bass. But for live performances they beat PCs hands down for all practical purposes.

 

[-Stingray]

I think it would be fine for home use, but honestly I don’t see how lugging a laptop or iPad around would be very convenient for gigging. Your going to need something foolproof and bulletproof to gig, a pc/tablet setup will be neither.

 

[40Hz]

My guitarist SO uses Bias FX and Amplitube on her high end iPad which she control with a (since discontinued) iRig Stomp IO pedal controller. They work sorta ok IMO, but she is mostly happy with her Apple ecosystem stuff.

If you’re running a DAW on an optimized for music PC (not necessarily an easy thing to configure if you’re running Windoze btw) then VST effects plugins work really well for recording.

For live use I’d suggest just getting a Line 6 HX Stomp. Line 6 has the best support based on my experience. Buy once, cry once. But there are a bunch of competitors offering DSP systems now. And some of them are really good too. Do do some research and try before you buy if possible. If not then get it from someone with a generous return policy.

You also need to check what effects, amp models, and cab IRs are included. Amplitude and Bias FX nickel and dime you on software add-ons and to fully unlock some of what’s “included.”. So with both of the above products best plan on buying additional “optional” feature packages if you want to do anything really useful with them.

 

[Maddieee]

Thanks for the replies everyone

I'll have a bit more of a look at multi-fx pedals that have headphone outputs as well, but I don't really want to spend a whole $700 on something like a HX stomp right now, compared to the $300 a good interface + amplitube 5 max (on sale) would cost me, and I would use an interface in the future for recording anyway. Are cheaper multi-fx pedals worth it at all?

 

[AK Bass Guy]

I think it would be fine for home use, but honestly I don’t see how lugging a laptop or iPad around would be very convenient for gigging. Your going to need something foolproof and bulletproof to gig, a pc/tablet setup will be neither.

Really depends on the environment. Corporate events and Church gigs are way less chaotic than other type of gigs. They usually have a lot more setup time and the musicians spaces are not shared with anyone else throughout the gig. So having gear that isn’t built like a tank is less of a concern.

But for quick setup and tear down multi fix pedals way more efficient and safe to carry around.

As far as quality of sound goes in the digital realm a MacBook or IPad Pro is going to have a lot more processing power than a digital fix pedal and allow for much higher sampling rates. As well as greater flexibility in soft patching and inter app connectivity.

I’m not saying one is better than the other, just that environment really dictates what the better tool to use is. Just like it applies to what is the better bass amp to use on a gig. If your playing an art opening, church gig, or coffee house you probably shouldn’t show up with a 8x10 SVT.