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Pedals about which I disagree with the norm

#61
AlexBassMP said:
IMO it depends of what are you looking for..and if it sounds ok to your ears and works for you...who cares?
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To be honest, I thought I was talking about the BDDI, which at no time do you mention, but to be even more honest, I couldnt really care any less what someone chooses to use. If you dig it! Then go with it.!
This thread is about pedals that get alot of hype but you don't think are all that great. The sansamp BDDi may be one of them for a couple reasons I stated, but I feel its a great overall pedal. Heck, I used one for a long time
 
#62
tminus10 said:
To be honest, I thought I was talking about the BDDI, which at no time do you mention, but to be even more honest, I couldnt really care any less what someone chooses to use. If you dig it! Then go with it.!
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My appologies for my speech..

I just wanted to put on the table that most of the times "top knocht pro rig" is an abstract concept with non absolute rules.

BDDI works for a great number of amateurs and pro players.. instead the rig they use. Just that.
 
#64
IMO, the BDDI and ParaDriver are the best representations of the subject at hand: two separate camps (like vs dislike) with not much neutrality between.

Strangely enough, of all the pedals addressed, these two are the only ones I know of which are available in full-blown rackmount versions (RBI, RPM). Correction: isn't the VT now available in the same format?

Riis
 
#65
Zooberwerx said:
IMO, the BDDI and ParaDriver are the best representations of the subject at hand: two separate camps (like vs dislike) with not much neutrality between.

Strangely enough, of all the pedals addressed, these two are the only ones I know of which are available in full-blown rackmount versions (RBI, RPM). Correction: isn't the VT now available in the same format?

Riis
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#66
johnk_10 said:
I really dig the Sparkle Drive too.
the popular ones on this forum that didn't float my boat at all were the Pork Loin, Sansamp's BDDI and paradriver, the Boss ODB3 and the Darkglass B3K.
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+1 to a good chunk of this. I have absolutely no interest in any of the Sansamp/VT stuff, none of it matches why my ears like. Also, to really go against the grain, the Darkglass pedals are not my thing at all. The only thing I like about them is how it has is softened up the market for other dirt pedals due to guys rashly selling them in order to buy the pricey B#K stuff. :D
 
#69
johnk_10 said:
it must've been one of their multiwave ones. the OFD and the classic pro don't sound digital at all.
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I'm not even sure what "sounding digital" is supposed to mean anymore. I realize it meant something in the past. But I think it's been proven repeatedly that the very best modern digital meets or exceeds analog, and that people have biases about what digital might sound like (e.g., the "Phaser Shoot-Out" thread).
 
#70
As to the norm: A pedal that I don't understand why not every bass player has one, is the regular Whammy. The chorus alone in it is superlush and amazing on bass.

As to sounding digital: I never manage to have less than 5 pedals in a chain and analogue choruses, phasers and the like, that sound warm by them selves, can make things come out pretty muddy at the end of the chain. So I use a Eventide Modfactory now. I also never understood why anyone would want a analogue delay on bass.
 
#71
Adamixoye said:
... But I think it's been proven repeatedly that the very best modern digital meets or exceeds analog...
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You can't make that statement for everyone. There are many, like myself, who do not want their signals to be fully sampled and reconstructed on the way to the head (on in the head). You may like the sound, but saying DSP exceeds analog is only from your point of view. I have a big heart for analog audio processing and I enjoy my analog board and tone. It's a big part of playing an electric instrument, for me. I'm not alone.

That aside, I thing the SA soundblox, even the pro models, sound like DSP and more importantly to me, behave like DSP.

I have DSP on my board but only additive (delay, detune). The root signal path is free of samplers and quantization. It's great that you love your SA DSPs but they don't belong on my board and I disagree that digital audio processing has been proven repeatedly to "beat" analog processing. It's just another avenue with exciting possibilities.
 
#72
aphexafx said:
You can't make that statement for everyone. There are many, like myself, who do not want their signals to be fully sampled and reconstructed on the way to the head (on in the head). You may like the sound, but saying DSP exceeds analog is only from your point of view. I have a big heart for analog audio processing and I enjoy my analog board and tone. It's a big part of playing an electric instrument, for me. I'm not alone.

That aside, I thing the SA soundblox, even the pro models, sound like DSP and more importantly to me, behave like DSP.

I have DSP on my board but only additive (delay, detune). The root signal path is free of samplers and quantization. It's great that you love your SA DSPs but they don't belong on my board and I disagree that digital audio processing has been proven repeatedly to "beat" analog processing. It's just another avenue with exciting possibilities.
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Maybe my statement was too strong to suggest (even though these weren't my exact words) that the best digital always beats the best analog. I didn't mean to "speak for everyone." But I don't buy your argument either. You cite sample rates without mentioning any downside of analog. But of course, at some point, the sample rate no longer matters to the human ear.

Also, with all due respect, anyone's suggestion that something "sounds digital" without doing a blind test is something I find suspect. That's why I cited the "Phaser Shootout." Overwhelmingly, in a blind test, TBers assumed the thinnest sounding phaser was the digital one, and that the thickest sounding phaser was clearly something analog...but it was actually the Source Audio Orbital Modulator, the only digital one in the sample. I'm not saying this test shows everything---it's only one sample of one type of effect after all---but the bias compared to the reality was incredible.

In general, our biases are much stronger than we want to admit. If you have done completely blind tests with digital vs. analog effects and still feel the way you do, then fine. But I imagine very few of us have, and based on the phaser shoot out, I think the concept of "sounding digital" is suspect.
 
#73
Adamixoye said:
In general, our biases are much stronger than we want to admit. If you have done completely blind tests with digital vs. analog effects and still feel the way you do, then fine. But I imagine very few of us have, and based on the phaser shoot out, I think the concept of "sounding digital" is suspect.
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Agreed. I think for me its more about how the algorithms behave that makes a DSP seem like a DSP. I wasn't asserting that DSP is NOT better than analog. It just a different approach and often not the desired solution.
 
#75
Adamixoye said:
I'm not even sure what "sounding digital" is supposed to mean anymore. I realize it meant something in the past. But I think it's been proven repeatedly that the very best modern digital meets or exceeds analog, and that people have biases about what digital might sound like (e.g., the "Phaser Shoot-Out" thread).
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I've always been an 'all analog' guy, be it for recording (on 2" tape, mixing on a Neve or Amek analog console, using all of our outboard analog rack gear, and my analog amplifiers). for me, digital usually doesn't have as smooth of a dynamic range as analog with the SA OFD, manta and Orbital being current exceptions. IMO, digital often also sounds 'processed' and can sound grittier than it's analog counterpart. it really comes down to how well a digital pedal or processor is designed. for example the Focusrite liquid channel strip doesn't sound digital at all to me, especially since they use a convolution process.

at the other end of the spectrum, the line6 digital Variax bass that I had a few years ago was extremely digital sounding and that's the reason that I sold it. I also think that my Zoom B2.1 and MS60-B, while being decent pedals, also have some digital artifacts and aren't as good as the analog devices that they emulate.
 
#76
eeyorebass said:
I'm curious. How does DSP 'behave'?

I've played good digital and bad, and I can't say I've noticed a consistent DSP behavior. I'm first to admit I don't have "golden ears." I'm honestly curious.

Jeremy
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I don't think they behave in any specific way; I meant that they don't feel and/or respond in the same way as the analog circuitry that I love.
 
#77
Lebowsky said:
Lots of pedals will also sound completely different if you use a passive or an 18v active bass...
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Back when I was accumulating guitar pedals, I soon realized that few pedals worked with all of my guitar and amps. Depending on the pickups some pedals were a great match and others were nearly useless.

Add to this the specific sound needed for all of the different styles of music we were doing, and no one pedal was the perfect pedal for each combination.
I ended up running three different OD's singularly and in concert to get the sound(s) I was looking for.

Now add to this how these pedals interact with eachother and your chance of satisfaction with the latest wonder pedal is greatly diminished.

I have rarely found the most popular pedal is best for my sonic needs, especially if you are unwilling/unable to spend the time necessary find your sound.

I really like my MS-60B, but only after I took the time to tweak the patches to my active bass, amp and the group setting.
 
#78
johnk_10 said:
I've always been an 'all analog' guy, be it for recording (on 2" tape, mixing on a Neve or Amek analog console, using all of our outboard analog rack gear, and my analog amplifiers). for me, digital usually doesn't have as smooth of a dynamic range as analog with the SA OFD, manta and Orbital being current exceptions. IMO, digital often also sounds 'processed' and can sound grittier than it's analog counterpart. it really comes down to how well a digital pedal or processor is designed. for example the Focusrite liquid channel strip doesn't sound digital at all to me, especially since they use a convolution process.

at the other end of the spectrum, the line6 digital Variax bass that I had a few years ago was extremely digital sounding and that's the reason that I sold it. I also think that my Zoom B2.1 and MS60-B, while being decent pedals, also have some digital artifacts and aren't as good as the analog devices that they emulate.
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I don't know if you're familiar with My Bloody Valentine, but they basically created the Shoegaze genre in the 90s (bands creating a massive, mid-tempo wall of sound while standing fairly motionless with the heads hanging down), and Kevin Shields is the godfather. Ironically, while most people think that he created his signature sound by sticking with analog effects (and don't get me wrong, he uses a hell of a lot of those, too!), he has said on more than one occasion that "secret weapons" were the Alesis Midiverb and the Yamaha SPX 90.

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/artic...ody-valentine-and-how-to-sound-like-them.html
 
#80
Aladinsane1969 said:
I don't know if you're familiar with My Bloody Valentine, but they basically created the Shoegaze genre in the 90s (bands creating a massive, mid-tempo wall of sound while standing fairly motionless with the heads hanging down), and Kevin Shields is the godfather. Ironically, while most people think that he created his signature sound by sticking with analog effects (and don't get me wrong, he uses a hell of a lot of those, too!), he has said on more than one occasion that "secret weapons" were the Alesis Midiverb and the Yamaha SPX 90.

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/artic...ody-valentine-and-how-to-sound-like-them.html
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funny. I still have both of those units from the late 80's but I haven't used them in ages.
 

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