Double Bass Pegbox break: dowel or bolt?

[krfoss]

Barring specific situations that call for one repair method over the other, I wonder what the general wisdom is with pegbox breaks?

I recently spoke to someone who said the bolt method is the right and best method for repairing a bass if the pegbox/ scroll has broken off.

i have no skin in the game or string opinion other than to be curious, and maybe skeptical.

what are your thoughts?

 

[TroyK]

I'm not the expert, but this is the internet, so...I'm reasonably confident that bolts are universally bad.

Better informed perspectives coming forthwith.

 

[krfoss]

I'm not the expert, but this is the internet, so...I'm reasonably confident that bolts are universally bad.

Better informed perspectives coming forthwith.

This I assumed is correct but we’ll see.

 

[Steven Ayres]

The best method depends on the specific nature of the break, but I'm confident the consensus is that in general using either a dowel or a bolt does not work long-term and complicates future repairs.

 

[james condino]

Don't forget all of the internet dorks who will fight to the death over ANY metal hardware being unacceptable, who suddenly go silent when I remind them that almost every Stradivari neck was held in with three square nails....I've handled several of them.

The real answer to the original question is the same as always: "Well...I didn't break the $#@!^& neck- you did. The bass needs a new neck, but you are too stingy to pay for it, so you want to argue over a cheap compromise."

 

[turf3]

The problem with introducing metal fasteners is that the wood will expand and contract many times more than the metal fastener. This can lead to the wood getting crushed down in those expand/contract cycles, and the metal fasteners getting loose. There are ways to prevent this, but you've got to actually think them out.

 

[dperrott]

Epoxy. The only thing that will work, and the only time to use it. A neck/scroll break is the reason to have instrument insurance

 

[Steven Ayres]

... almost every Stradivari neck was held in with three square nails ...

I can add that some very early Kay basses have pegboxes held on with screws. From what I've seen there were very good reasons for abandoning that practice.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Shelf graft is currently seen as best practice. My favorite bass was doweled through the cheeks and I had to re-do the repair during the pandemic, which wasn’t fun.

 

[Phil Rowan]

The problem with introducing metal fasteners is that the wood will expand and contract many times more than the metal fastener. This can lead to the wood getting crushed down in those expand/contract cycles, and the metal fasteners getting loose. There are ways to prevent this, but you've got to actually think them out.

My hybrid bass's original neck had been fixed with metal bolts and indeed, practically every change in season it would open up due to changes in the wood's expansion, etc., would rattle like hell and be a huge and absolute PITA to the degree where I just stopped playing that bass as much. Good riddance to that neck.

 

[james condino]

I can add that some very early Kay basses have pegboxes held on with screws. From what I've seen there were very good reasons for abandoning that practice.

The early American Standards had pegboxes that were a scroll graft pinned with wooden dowels; they almost always fail.

Easily, the number one failure I see is epoxy; hands down. Folks buy the cheap crap, they don't mix it properly, and they don't apply it properly. You get one chance to do it correct, they blow it, and then there is no second chance. I had one of those on the workbench yesterday that turned a $4500 bass into $900 in parts.

 

[dperrott]

The early American Standards had pegboxes that were a scroll graft pinned with wooden dowels; they almost always fail.

Easily, the number one failure I see is epoxy; hands down. Folks buy the cheap crap, they don't mix it properly, and they don't apply it properly. You get one chance to do it correct, they blow it, and then there is no second chance. I had one of those on the workbench yesterday that turned a $4500 bass into $900 in parts.

yep not the time for 5 minute epoxy

 

[james condino]

Usually pegbox repairs will hold up well with simple hot hide glue. The big bonus with most basses is the giant brass plate for the tuning machines adds tremendous support, much more than the actual wood. 'Probably the reason why we all tolerate them; I've never seen one break in half!

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Epoxy. The only thing that will work, and the only time to use it. A neck/scroll break is the reason to have instrument insurance

Yep. I used nothing but hide glue for years until some very well respected luthiers got me to try epoxy. It’s all I use for scrolls and neck heel breaks. Sometimes I’ll run a 3/8” or 1/8” maple dowel under the nut but never a bolt. Future repairs??? If epoxy fails it’s done anyway.