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Perceptions are changing.

#41
I think the meat of the OP was that an instrument made in China, finished in Canada costs more than a MIA Fender; thus perceptions are changing. CNC doesn't have a geolocation parameter, but why is a Dingwall finished in Canada? I'd say that perceptions aren't changing. We still don't "trust" made in China instruments to be of the utmost quality and need to be tweaked before they're good enough. The price is higher than a MIA Fender, but there is a lot more going on with a Dingwall than a Fender component-wise. I wonder how many of the MIA Fender components are made in America.
 
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#42
MojoPin said:
After playing a combustion with a 37' scale on the B, I feel that a longer scale length helps with the sound of the low B by a LARGE margin. If that's not "the point" of multi-scale instruments then I really don't see "the point" of multi-scale at all, by all means thrall me with your acumen. The multiscale was different and YES, I had to "deal with it". It was different and a little confusing at first with the extra string AND the multiscale fretboard layout. I wouldn't want to have to DEAL with that continually with all my other basses being non-multiscale.
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I'm with MojoPin. And though I have no Dingwalls, a 37" B IS a beautiful thing!

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#43
Well I have a 36 scale inch 6 string bass with 19mm spacing and I do play hybrid guitars a lot and they are the OG fan-fret - Novak patented that and I've played a 4 string jazz bass by Novak and it sounded awesome. But I have to ask, why do you need the B to have more fundamental when

Bass speakers will not reproduce it - maybe PA's can but should they when the bass drum occupies that space or the synth bass
HPF and the need for a tighter bass -- you may counter that the 37 brings that
Piano - sound isn't that what the piano is more and you really cannot compete or even some close to B0 on the piano - it is just richer, because the strings outside the speaking length also have a timbre that is well unique to piano. I think this talk of piano like is being told by people with no piano. The B0 string on a 9ft grand although not 9 ft is at least twice the 37 inch scale of a Dingwall and the tension could possibly be 4x. If you ever go to a Nils Frahm concert where he has piezos on the piano sound board, then you will get to hear truly what B0 sounds like. But I also know that maybe it's not that but the B string on a Dingwall playing E and above is what appeals.

The thump on short scales is something one cannot ignore, so somehow defies the long is better argument - and I am not a short scale fan but on my hybrid at 29.5 on the E -- it is thump central but of course I have tuned it a 3rd up so the string is tighter. But even regular shorties sound good there not all of them but some do,

I really think a well set-up 35 scale 5 string is good enough for the needs of the modern bass player and lastly...

I play fretless - even though I have a wide 20mm spacing (with the ratio of a 1.75" P on the but (2.25 wide) 35 scale as my current main gigging bass -- That is the limit of what I can play. I will falter on a fretless Dingwall specially if I got the " better than anyone else" unlined version if one exists.

But if may well be the new thing moving on. If you gave me a Dingwall, I will surely play it and possibly even champion it. It will taker a lot even if I have a ton of discretionary funds to buy 1.
 
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#45
I feel like comparing a Fender price point and Dingwall price point is apples and oranges, really. While this new Dingwall model is definitely aimed at a more general population of players because of the look and pup arrangement, there's still the fanned fret situation.
 
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#46
bucephylus said:
When the vast majority of the population was listening to the same material on Top 40 radio in their cars, there was a somewhat systematic familiarity with songs amongst audiences in clubs.

This made playing gigs a somewhat more straightforward enterprise. Non-musician audiences are most easily pleased by music, with which they are familiar.

As for some existential debate about “normalcy,” you would be better to engage someone else. I’m not much on philosophy. I will observe that humans genetically like their tribal groups, however those may be defined. You may take it from there.
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I know not everyone digs him, but Rick Beato speaks to this in one of his videos - labels and radio networks curated things so there was more a unified, monolithic, experience of music. This is no longer the case. Good thing or bad thing, not for me to say.

Dingwalls are cool, but not for me.
 
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#47
To the original point, Asian made basses finished in North America may become a common path for top quality. Yes that’s a change.

As for fanned frets or long scales? I don’t need them. I’m an old fart playing short scale 4 strings and being happy about it. I don’t need a low B. I don’t need all that piano like clarity. If I were a young ‘un playing the current metal styles, I’d probably want one.
 
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#48
Root 5 said:
Have you tried a Dingwall through a quality amp? The low B is like the voice of God!
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The Dingwall Combustion I tried out was through a Bergantino amp and cab and sounded fantastic but the combustions has a 34-37 inch scale spread where the SP-1 has a 32-35 spread which I'm sure is great, but not as good as the 34-37. I'm not really a fan of the look of the combustions style though and was really into the SP-1 until I found out the specs. A Mike Lull has a 35' scale length and no multiscale so I'm probably gonna go that direction with a 5 string since all my other basses will be standard, don't want to get a multi-scale if I don't have to really and I was really wanting one for the better B. I'll probably get a more modern shaped Dingwall down the road though, no denying those are fantastic instruments, made in Canada or Indonesia.
 
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#49
My number one issue with Dingwall is that they are hard to try in a store. I live in Las Vegas, NV which is a major city and hub for entertainment and not one store out here carries them. It's not just about the B string. I opted for a 4 string because that is what I play and I am blown away by this John Taylor DIngwall. The even tension and sound across the whole bass is what makes it a huge winner.

It's not just for metal as I play it mostly in the band I sub with that plays Ska, Swing, Raggae and surf tunes. That said my Fenders are not going anywhere either.
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#50
In recent interviews, both Michael Tobias and Sheldon Dingwall talked about the necessity of having basses made offshore and brought to North America for the finishing touches in order for them to be affordable. Lakland seems to have been the true pioneers of this process, in fact, I saw an article in a business magazine that said Lakland never made a profit until they created the Skyline series. Now Lakland, MTD, Dingwall, and Gibson (Tobias) are all making higher end instruments at Indonesian or Chinese facilities. The prices are ranging from $1,500-$3,900.

Given this reality, companies like G&L or Music Man, along with Fender, are making some serious bang for the buck instruments in California!👍🏿

German made Sadowsky’s are pretty reasonable too.
 
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#53
Dr. Cheese said:
In recent interviews, both Michael Tobias and Mr. Dingwall (I forgot his first name,) talked about the necessity of having basses made offshore and brought to North America for the finishing touches in order for them to be affordable. Lakland seems to have been the true pioneers of this process, in fact, I saw an article in a business magazine that said Lakland never made a profit until they created the Skyline series. Now Lakland, MTD, Dingwall, and Gibson (Tobias) are all making higher end instruments at Indonesian or Chinese facilities. The prices are ranging from $1,500-$3,900.

Given this reality, companies like G&L or Music Man, along with Fender, are making some serious bang for the buck instruments in California!👍🏿

German made Sadowsky’s are pretty reasonable too.
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between this, and the price of basses like Alembic and Fodera, Cliff Bordwell seems like a bargain for what you get.
 
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#54
MojoPin said:
Kinda feel like there isn't a point to the fanned fretting when the scale on the long end is 35', might as well get a used Mike Lull, not have to deal with fanned frets and call it a day.
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I’m old and have been playing “forever”. Two years ago I bought an Ibanez EHB1505MS (MS = multi-scale or fanned fret). I was paranoid about playing it live but after a couple months I “bit the bullet”. It felt great and was actually a bit easier to play than a standard scale.
I sold the bass because I didn’t like the way it sat on my chest while I played it. Those basses have a strange back and I could never get used to it.
A Dingwall was in my future but with the recent 25% increase in prices I have my doubts.
 
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#57
From 1984:

I just looked at a Steinberger L2 and it costs more than a Fender Elite and I bet most of us who really follow gear, think the Steinberger is the better buy. Times have changed.

From 1995:

I just looked at a Warwick Thumb and it costs more than a Fender Deluxe and I bet most of us who really follow gear, think the Warwick is the better buy. Times have changed.

From 2005:

I just looked at a Sadowsky and it costs more than a Fender Relic and I bet most of us who really follow gear, think the Sadowsky is the better buy. Times have changed.

Just saying… :thumbsup:
 
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