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Double Bass Perpetuals - Stark/Medium/Mixed?

I’ve been using perpetual stark D-G with Spirocore Weich 3885 E-A for a few months now, and I do think it’s the best jazz set I’ve come across. If I were playing mostly or entirely with the bow, I would absolutely use the full perpetual stark set. They’re just much better with the bow than Spiros. But for amplified pizz, it’s tough to beat the Spiro E A.

In terms of tension, the perp stark DG match pretty well with the 3885 Spiro weich. I find the S42 weichs to be quite a bit lower in tension, and so I doubt that they would match up with the perpetual stark. The regular perpetual match up well with the S42 weichs; I tried that on my other bass, but I wasn’t crazy about the regular perpetual D G overall. The stark is a completely different animal.

I got these strings after communicating with Pirastro about string options, and I want to mention that I think it’s a really good company; very helpful customer service and really good quality strings.
 
For what it's worth, the "Stark" Perpetuals are not just "added windings" onto the regular strings - they're manufactured entirely differently than the standard "Orchestral" Perpetuals. And, in my personal experience (my own bass has a full stark set on it as I type this) they are - unlike most "stark" strings - not significantly higher in tension than the orchestrals. So what's the deal with the Starks?

For Spirocores, they offer three choices - Light, Medium and Heavy (Weich, Mittel, and Stark). For them, "Stark" means higher tension, thicker strings. Presumably, made the same way, but adding (or removing) some material/windings/etc. (Overly simplistic, but you get the point.)

The Perpetual's "Stark" designation, at least IMHO, doesn't indicate higher tension, but rather "bolder sound." They are also thicker in diameter (gauge) than the orchestrals, but the tension and flexibility is still very friendly. And to make that happen required that they take several steps back and reconsider more than just winding count, as I'm told. They were basically re-engineered almost from the ground up.

The reason they exist is this: when the original Perpetual sets went out to a selection of production set testing, they received a significant amount of feedback that some players found the G-string too thin (small in diameter). Players liked its sound, but weren't crazy about the "skinny" feel under their hands. So the mad scientists at Pirastro tried some alternate materials/winding/black magic to try to recreate the G-string but with a thicker profile (without making it higher tension or stiffer.) What they came up with worked well, tone-wise and playability-wise, with the rest of the set - but it had a bit of a beefier sound. So rather than replacing the original G, which people still did like, they offered it as a new alternate "stark" version. A similar D-string made sense, so they engineered that too, and that's how they were sold for a while. A regular set with options to replace the D and G with a "stark" option.

The stark E and A strings came later - they just came out a few months ago.

Since they require more labor and materials to make, they cost more than the standard orchestra variant, which adds to the confusion. Were I in the room, my marketing-trained mind would have suggested to the Pirastro "powers that be" that they call them something different, since they feel and sound different from the Perpetual Orchestra - maybe Perpetual Deluxe? Goodness knows they've used that designation plenty throughout their catalog(!)

But, I think "Stark" has a well-known meaning, and these strings subvert that meaning a bit - again, IMO.

All that to say - the Perpetual Orchestra strings don't suck. They're great, and lots of customers use them. I think that - for me - the stark G is a big improvement, with a bolder timbre that I prefer. The D-string is also an improvement, but perhaps not as profound a difference as with the G.

The new stark E and A strings replaced the standard orch E and A, and I can say there was a difference in them, too - some folks have taken to putting stark G and D on top, and Spiros on the bottom to get that beefier, punchier tone down low - I think the stark E and A do that well enough for me to not have to bother mixing sets.

So, the TL;DR* to me is: If it's me, I definitely get the Stark G. If I have the scratch, I get the whole stark set, but if money's tight, the regular E-A-D strings are no slouches.

I hope that little ramble into the weeds was helpful in some way. It's all subjective, and YMMV, yada yada yada.

*Too Long; Didn't Read
Regarding "Stark" Perpetuals, are you playing pizz or with a bow? Jazz and/or symphony?
 
Regarding "Stark" Perpetuals, are you playing pizz or with a bow? Jazz and/or symphony?

Sorry for the delay. I play mostly pizz, myself - contemporary/musical theater type stuff for the most part. I bow at home for practice, maybe play an occasional ballad out (but I don't consider myself a particularly adept arco player.)
 
I had regular set of Perpetuals on my old flatback for over 3 years and just recently bought D and G Stark. After 2 weeks of really intense usage (7 gigs, 4 rehearsals and daily practicing, 99% pizz) I can finally share some insight. D is a really nice upgrade, sounds a little bit fuller than regular Perpetual. But the G… For me it’s on another level, huge upgrade! It sounds as I always wanted for the G string to sound, with playability of regular Perpetual. I don’t feel any difference in tension or flexibility in comparison to the regular Perpetuals. Today I ordered another one (this time just the G) for my Yamaha SLB and I’m really curious how it will mix with Spiro Weich E&A and regular Perpetual D.
 
UPD: After four more gigs on my regular upright, I’m still totally in love with the Stark D & G.

But… I ordered another Stark G for my Yamaha SLB300 (I had a full Spiro Weich set on it before) and paired it with a regular Perpetual D (that used to be on my flatback) plus Spiro Weich E & A — and honestly, I’m pretty underwhelmed.

The Stark G feels a bit nicer under the fingers than the Spiro Weich G, sure — but definitely it wasn’t worth the price. And I actually had to switch back from the Perpetual D to the Spiro Weich D mid-gig. Didn’t expect that, but it was just too floppy to feel comfortable.

It’s crazy how the exact same strings can behave so differently depending on the bass. For my whole career I only had one upright, so it was always just “I like these” or “I don’t.” Never really got to try the same setup on another instrument — until now. I know EUBs are a different kind of animal, but still. Lesson learned.
 
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It’s crazy how the exact same strings can behave so differently depending on the bass.

Ain't it the truth. Small differences in geometry can have profound effects; the break angle over the bridge, how long the afterlength is, minor variations in scale length - they all matter. Thanks for the reminder!
 
I'm assuming you mean under plain gut. If you feel you are successfully amplifying your bass, please share your set up.

Yeah, I’m always a little fuzzy on the nomenclature.
Perpetual stark E and A, Gamut Pistoy D and Lyon G.
Yamahiko single sensor, E side.
The preamp/amp is a Mesa Subway D-350. It sounds great as a preamp to FOH but also I have an Acme B1 cabinet if needed.
 
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