Personal monitors

[samson3382]

One of the cover bands I play in is looking to downsize/upgrade our monitor setup. Guitarist (BL, owns PA)calls me today and is going to GC to check out the Mackie srm150 & the Behringer 205D. (If in stock)

Four members, we are trying hard to reduce stage volume without going in-ear.
Small to medium gigs, and we do have access to more/larger equipment on the rare occasion it's necessary.

Our mains are a pair of PVXP12s. Monitor system is a power amp and a hodgepodge of four mismatched, passive, heavy, large 12s.

Guitarist has a black heart 12 combo, I have a shuttle 6.2 with one or two Baer 112s. Vocals x3 and guitar in the monitor mix. Drummer is tough to keep a leash on volume wise, but we're working on that. It's not a problem at all when he plays cajon, which we encourage.

BL got rid of his band trailer, and is hoping to have us essentially take care of our own monitors. I'm all for it, I can use it for plenty of other things.

Thoughts?

 

[Winfred]

Four members, we are trying hard to reduce stage volume without going in-ear.

I'm not trying to be flippant, so please forgive me, but your drummer is a problem.

Downsizing your PA isn't going to make him play with less volume. He either understands stage volume or he doesn't.

As for monitors, I don't understand what you're trying to do. Trying to reduce stage volume is easy; turn down.

Again, I'm not trying to be a wise @zz. But I've been through this problem so many times with bands. Usually it's a drummer or a guitarist. Heck, sometimes it's the bassist.

 

[samson3382]

He is a problem, I agree. To be honest he's a bit of a diva and whiny little ****. There's allot more to this part of the issue id rather not get into as you can imagine I'm sure.
But certain things do work, whether he even realizes or not, to get him quiter. The guitarist and I have noticed repeatedly that if we keep our volume down he's more likely to. And if he's in control of his own monitor volume, and he bought it, and plays too loud to hear it without it farting out, he'll play quieter. He's cheap.

We're not downsizing the mains, they're fine for us. Right now our monitors take up twice as much space and at least twice the weight as our mains, take longer to set up. The rest of us are confident we could get by with far less, myself especially. Tryin to make setup/teardown as fast and easy as possible.

 

[RustyAxe]

I'm able to get by with a Behringer 205D. Got it for $75 on CL, minty fresh. It works and sounds as good as the Mackie, IMO. In my classic country band, that doesn't play overly loud, it's plenty for vocal monitoring. The other guys are using big 12" powered wedges.

 

[samson3382]

I'm able to get by with a Behringer 205D. Got it for $75 on CL, minty fresh. It works and sounds as good as the Mackie, IMO. In my classic country band, that doesn't play overly loud, it's plenty for vocal monitoring. The other guys are using big 12" powered wedges.

Good to hear. Thanks. I mainly just wanted to know if they're junk and should be avoided.
Our thinking is to have everyone purchase, haul, setup, and run their own monitor.

Since we do have a power amp, the other route we were considering was peavey PR10

 

[RustyAxe]

I'd buy one and try it in the position that is least satisfactory now (ie, loudest, farthest from floor monitors, etc) and see if works for you. A lot depends on how loud you are on stage. I found a Home Depot tool bag that's a perfect fit ... it's nice carrying a monitor that you can pick up with one finger, I used to use a Behringer B212a on an amp stand, this is better.

 

[EastCoastThump]

He is a problem, I agree. ... And if he's in control of his own monitor volume, and he bought it, and plays too loud to hear it without it farting out, he'll play quieter. He's cheap.

As someone who has lived through this, I'll tell you what you probably already suspect: an already too-loud drummer in charge of his own monitor mix can be a nightmare.

Can you put *just* the drummer on in-ears or cans? (Go wired to keep the costs down.) If he runs his drums hot in his personal IEM mix, he'll tend to play quieter—allowing the rest of you to run quieter stage wedges (smaller ones, too, if that's the main goal).

 

[samson3382]

As someone who has lived through this, I'll tell you what you probably already suspect: an already too-loud drummer in charge of his own monitor mix can be a nightmare.

Can you put *just* the drummer on in-ears or cans? (Go wired to keep the costs down.) If he runs his drums hot in his personal IEM mix, he'll tend to play quieter—allowing the rest of you to run quieter stage wedges (smaller ones, too, if that's the main goal).

That would be cheaper, I would guess. I know his other band practices with cans, so he would be familiar with the concept. He'd worry about how they look. Monitor mix is vocals and guitar only.

We don't mic any drums anymore, vocal mics do that more than we'd like, and it's overkill for our gigs. I worry if he heard any LESS of his kit he'd play even louder. We were using an aquarium, but it's big, awkward, stupid looking band-aid solution.

I'm well aware the easiest, cheapest, most effective answer is, "fire the drummer".
But, not my call, and there's history, other factors at play that prevent adult decisions.

It's looking like everyone's onboard but the drummer, and if we do this we will not be dragging an amp and 12 monitor just for him. So he'll be on his own for a solution.

 

[buldog5151bass]

As I always say, if you can't speak with each other on stage while playing, it's too loud. Try cans at practice for the drummer (not noise cancellation, just cheapies) and see what the reaction is. There is always some drum bleed through vocal mics, so he will still hear himself fine. Maybe also he can get one of the plexiglass shields.

I played with people who use the little hot spot monitors you mount on mic stands - it doesn't get much more compact than that.

 

[samson3382]

As I always say, if you can't speak with each other on stage while playing, it's too loud. Try cans at practice for the drummer (not noise cancellation, just cheapies) and see what the reaction is. There is always some drum bleed through vocal mics, so he will still hear himself fine. Maybe also he can get one of the plexiglass shields.

I played with people who use the little hot spot monitors you mount on mic stands - it doesn't get much more compact than that.

We did use a shield, (aquarium) for a while. It did help save ears and bleed, but we won't have an easy way to haul it anymore. I don't miss setting it up, I know the drummer HATED it.

Ran this by the guitarist and I think this is the route we're gonna go.
It'll be the cheapest for the drummer, he MAY need a headphone amp, we don't run our mixer stereo so the phones out wouldn't be ideal, he may not want main mix either.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Really sounds like the drummer is your problem. Nothing you do will overcome a stupid loud drummer. I assume you are wearing ear plugs until you can beat some sense into him.

Also, make a band decision that whoever is in charge of the PA will set all monitor levels (note - NOT drummer).

 

[samson3382]

He absolutely is the problem, it's cost us gigs before. We force him to use the cajon when we know he'll be too loud for a particular gig now. He is getting better, and less offended when asked to keep it down.

I know lots of drummers, who understand it's about the audience, not their art. But like I said, different issue, belongs in a band management thread.

We're gonna give him the options of having nothing, purchase his own powered monitor, or purchase a $25 headphone amp and use headphones he already has.

BL is selling off his passives.

 

[s0c9]

He absolutely is the problem, it's cost us gigs before. We force him to use the cajon when we know he'll be too loud for a particular gig now. He is getting better, and less offended when asked to keep it down.

New drummer time? Or is that not an option ?

 

[samson3382]

New drummer time? Or is that not an option ?

That would be the professional solution.