Phil Jones Bass : should i get a second C4 or a C2

[crocau]

Hello,
I own a PJB Bass Pulse One amp that I plug into a PJB C4. I sometimes swap my PJB for an Agilar TH350. I use it mainly with my old Kay Swingmaster, but also with a NSD, a Fender Jazz and a Yamaha Trb6. Anyway, i would like more volume, enough for a loud rock band. Would a C2 do that, or should I go for a second C4 ? Or would a better amp optimise my C4 ? Thanks

 

[pcake]

a loud rock band? when i played with loud rock bands, i used a 1000 watt head, a 118 and a 210.

my C2 is pretty loud - i use it with a mesa D-350 - but i'm not using it in a band scenario. if you need more sound disperson, you'd want more cone area. i'd go for a second C4 myself.

hopefully others with more knowledge than i will reply.

 

[Wasnex]

AFAIK PJB does not post sensitivity ratings for their cab. My impression is that they are relatively low, especially for the smaller cabs. I would not expect a pair of C4s to work in a loud rock band.

Here is the way it works.

If you add a second matching cab (in parallel), the sensitivity goes up 3dB, the power handling goes up 3dB, and the impedance is reduce by 1/2.

So if your amp doubles the power when the impedance goes from 8 to 4 ohms, you get +6dB when you add a matching cab.

The TH350 is rated 175W at 8 ohms and 350W at 4 ohms, so you should expect +6dB from adding a matching C4.

Without know the sensitivity ratings of the both the C2 and C4, I can't really tell you how much the SPL will go up. Since both are 8 ohms cabs, my guess is the C2 is 4 to 5 dB less efficient than the C4. So with available power you might expect an increase of about 3.9-4.3dB. This is assuming the C2 can actually handle 175W of bass, which I would have to witness to believe.

If you expect to play in a loud rock band, I suggest buying a cab with a high sensitivity rating. This will most likely mean something larger.

If you get a 4 ohm cab with a 103dB 1W/1m sensitivity rating:

Calculated SPL at 350W = [Log(350) x 10] + 103 = 128.4dB.​

This should be plenty loud. I was usually happy with a rig capable of at least 124dB calculated. It wasn't always loud enough to hear well, but I am not willing to play much louder than this.

You can use these decibel change figures to determine the calculated SPL various cabs can make.


At 4 ohms, decibel change of 1W-350W = 25.4dB
At 8 ohms, decibel change of 1W-175W = 22.4dB

Assuming the cabs can actually handle the amp's rated power: Find the 1W/1m sensitivity rating of the cab you are considering, and add it to decibel change that occurs at the cab's rated impedance.

 

[wagdog]

In my anecdotal experience with PJB cabs, more is aways better. I love their sound but I find absolute volume is not their strong suit.

 

[Marko 1]

Sounds like a lot of money to end up with a Struggle Rig.

If you're going to play loud Rock, you need a loud-Rock rig, meaning a cab with multiple 10"s or a couple 15"s.

imo of course.

 

[paskisti]

350w in 4 ohms may be enough if you have large cab with good sensitivity. I played in my early carreer with 300w GK amp and Mesa 215 RR cab and they were enough in most cases. 810 would do it too but probably not anything smaller. With 500-800w amp you could do it with 410 if cab is sensitive enough (like Markbass 104HF) but you need 4 ohm version to get that power out of many amps.

Loud rock or metal needs different equipment than acoustic or quiet jazz band set.

 

[AMJBASS]

I would probably lean towards getting another C4. Also, a HPF will help a lot in controlling cone excursion as the Aguilar's tend to be high passed fairly low. That will help with more volume and clarity. Big fan of the PJB Compact cabs, but they aren't the most efficient, and do tend to take a lot of power.

 

[Marko 1]

I know this is off-topic, but this just kinda popped into my head.

Here's my tool kit...

Now I want enough to build a house, should I add this one?

or this one?
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Thanks.

 

[mrperkolator]

Hello,
I own a PJB Bass Pulse One amp that I plug into a PJB C4. I sometimes swap my PJB for an Agilar TH350. I use it mainly with my old Kay Swingmaster, but also with a NSD, a Fender Jazz and a Yamaha Trb6. Anyway, i would like more volume, enough for a loud rock band. Would a C2 do that, or should I go for a second C4 ? Or would a better amp optimise my C4 ? Thanks

Important question.... Do you guys have your own PA, or expect to use a PA? Whether your amp is doing the heavy lifting or being a monitor for you is a critical detail imo.

 

[InnerCityBass]

I have been running two C4 cabs for most of my concerts for the past 5 years, most often because of space saving for the transport, but far more often have the FOH sound engineers asked me to turn it down, rather than letting me turn it up higher. A pair of C4's are incredibly loud/effective for the size.

However, I don't play "in a loud rock band", and a loud rock band is so subjective, and playing outdoor vs indoor in a lively room also make a world of difference, so it's hard to say if a pair is enough. I play mainly blues and 60s soul, in venues up to 300-400 people with this setup, and I have a little volume to spare usually. I don't think adding a C2 would be much of a volume improvement matched with a C4 - also one C4 is in my experience very limited in volume, but a pair makes a huge difference.

 

[jimmydean]

You cant go wrong with a C4 cab , but I would go with a C8 .

 

[BassToGoGo]

I have a PB800 head and two C4's and one C8. We can get loud but I wouldn't call us a "Loud" band.

In most clubs I use one C4 with the C8 unplugged (the worlds most expensive amp stand. Lol) so that the C4 isn't blasting at my ankles, sometimes with a DI to the house, others not. If it's a bigger show with larger room or outside I add the C8.

I know where to keep my volume levels, still I occasionally am asked by FoH to turn down.

I'd go with a C8 if possible.

 

[6-3-2]

Important question.... Do you guys have your own PA, or expect to use a PA? Whether your amp is doing the heavy lifting or being a monitor for you is a critical detail imo.

I agree on this. If the PA is handling the mix, then your own amp doesn't have to be that loud. I'm not sure why one C4 wouldn't do the trick. I'd got for a C2 just to keep things light and compact.

 

[lug]

I agree on this. If the PA is handling the mix and your guitarist isn't insane, then your own amp doesn't have to be that loud. I'm not sure why one C4 wouldn't do the trick. I'd got for a C2 just to keep things light and compact.

FTFY

 

[Jackcrow]

I play in a fairly loud rock band and I used to use a C8. I loved the way it sounded but it was at the limit of what it would do volume wise. 2 C8’s would have been perfect. The C8 was definitely one of my favorite sounding cabs though.

For reference I currently use either a Bergantino CN212 or Ampeg 810.

 

[CH Design]

a loud rock band? when i played with loud rock bands, i used a 1000 watt head, a 118 and a 210.

my C2 is pretty loud - i use it with a mesa D-350 - but i'm not using it in a band scenario. if you need more sound disperson, you'd want more cone area. i'd go for a second C4 myself.

hopefully others with more knowledge than i will reply.

Off topic, but how do you like that combination? I've often thought it would be a perfect practice amp for getting "big amp" tone at low volume.

 

[6-3-2]

FTFY

It's a real issue, but if a band is serious about giving the audience a good sound, then a guitarist like that shouldn't be there.

 

[lug]

It's a real issue, but if a band is serious about giving the audience a good sound, then a guitarist shouldn't be there.

FTFY

 

[6-3-2]

FTFY

correct. LOL

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Back in my PJB days, I needed a C4/C8 with a D-600 head to compete in a loud rock situation. I used that rig with Eric McFadden quite a few times, which was probably the loudest I needed. The C8 by itself worked really well for more "normal" rock gigs, and for large outdoor Jazz gigs where I didn't need to be as loud. The C4 was great for smaller venues, especially with PA support. I also used a Super Flightcase (6x5" @ 300W) for a TON of stuff. IME, a C2/C4 isn't gonna go all that far when it gets loud. Even a C4/C4 is limited. I'd go with a C8.

I switched to Trickfish about 6 years ago, starting with an SM112 and then an SM110. Those stacked were on par with the C4/C8, and a LOT lighter. I later got a TF408, which I can pair with the SM112 when I need to get stupid-loud (or just want to have fun hauling gear...).