Phonic vs Pro Pyle

[jackajesusfreak]

Anyone have any experience and/or knowledge of either one of these PA amps?
Jack

 

[Barisaxman]

Both cheap crap...if money is a problem. Buy name brand used gear. Cheap will let you down EVERY time, and always at the most inopportune time. QSC, Crown, Crest, Yamaha, Mackie, Carvin....any should do the job just fine. Cheap amps are cheap for a reason.... they will make you go

 

[bassman1185]

Phonic gear sounds pretty good, but the construction isn't very good. It's better and more reliable than, say, Behringer gear, but it's not that great. You get what you pay for.

 

[TimmyP]

Would you prefer a cat turd or a dog turd?

Cat is smaller. But more stinky. But less squishy when you step on it. But being more solid, it's harder to clean from the grooves in the bottom of your shoe.

 

[agedhorse]

Good to see the answers are almost identical to the other live sound forum.

 

[jackajesusfreak]

Opinions are one thing, but if you want to avoid the 'gear snob' label, then it's all in the attitude. It would be better served to approach things as such; "I personally would never buy either one of those brand names and here's the reasons why.............however, if you are in need of a PA system and your limited budget has narrowed it down to these 2, this is what I know about each, so if I were forced into buying one or the other, this is the one I would choose because............

'Gear snob' label has nothing to do with your opinion, it's how you deliver it. No one wants to be ridiculed for not having the money some of you have or willing to go into the debt that some of you have. No one also wants to feel inferior or less of a musician just because they can't afford what you can.

Jack

 

[modulusman]

for some other opinions head over here. Link Removed

 

[agedhorse]

Opinions are one thing, but if you want to avoid the 'gear snob' label, then it's all in the attitude. It would be better served to approach things as such; "I personally would never buy either one of those brand names and here's the reasons why.............however, if you are in need of a PA system and your limited budget has narrowed it down to these 2, this is what I know about each, so if I were forced into buying one or the other, this is the one I would choose because............

'Gear snob' label has nothing to do with your opinion, it's how you deliver it. No one wants to be ridiculed for not having the money some of you have or willing to go into the debt that some of you have. No one also wants to feel inferior or less of a musician just because they can't afford what you can.

Jack

Jack, did you read my response in the other forum?

For the benefit of others that may have similar questions or perceptions regarding the (common) assumption that cheaper is just as good, here's is what I posted there in response to a comment in his thread on HC:

Originally Posted by Wolfgang2049
I have not made a post on here in a awhie because of the mindset of all of the people above. Among other thigns, the great majority of them are brand snobs.

To answer your question, there is nothing wrong with Phonic. I have several Phonic amps and they all work great. If you are considering a Phonic amp, just get it and ignore these folks. Same with Berhinger or any other brand these folks turn their nose up at. Read the actual reviews of these items at the online music stores from people that actually own and use this cheaper gear to assist in your purchase. As someone previously mentioned, Phonic makes a lot of equipment that has the Yamaha name stamped on it. Very similar concept to what Samsung used to be to Sony. Worked pretty good for them.

and my response:

I would like to address your comments directly:

This is from somebody who has serviced all this stuff, so I see the other side as well... the side of the user who has been oth the other side.

The number of failures is generally higher with lower tier companies and for the specific example of Pyle Pro, I worked on a couple, both were not worth fixing. They were pretty much junk, rebranded ******* commodity junk. The other brands you mention are also lower tier, better than Pyle IME, but still not as good as brands like QSC at just about the same price AND with a 6 year warranty. WHY recommend a product with a 1 or two year warranty when there is a higher quality product with a 6 year warranty at about the same price AND that product has a real track record?

Phonic does not make any current Yamaha product that I am aware of. That was a couple of lines of budget mixers quite a few years ago that were ok, but don't think for a minute that Yamaha wasn't all over them like flys on crap regarding quality control and following protocol. That's how it works when you build for a company like Yamaha. Phonic is a good company, makes some ok entry/mid level and MI stuff but not pro quality or durability by any means.

Samsung versus Sony? Samsung is better now, but for years their audio and video product was so bad that the only thing the two companies had in common was the "S" in their names. I was the service manager for a chain of Hi Fi stores about 35 years ago, and when Samsung was picked up as a line, the quality was so bad it was scary.

I do not think your comment about being brand snobs was justified. Most of us here are interested in seeing people get a good value for their hard earned dollar, and to buy a product that has a good track record of reliability, preformance and serviceability. Also, helping them use it in a way that it will last and be useful, without inadvertant damage is part of our recommendations.

If you do not agree with this philosophy, that's fine, but calling us brand snobs shows your lack of understanding of this industry as a whole.

 

[Barisaxman]

Opinions are one thing, but if you want to avoid the 'gear snob' label, then it's all in the attitude. It would be better served to approach things as such; "I personally would never buy either one of those brand names and here's the reasons why.............however, if you are in need of a PA system and your limited budget has narrowed it down to these 2, this is what I know about each, so if I were forced into buying one or the other, this is the one I would choose because............

'Gear snob' label has nothing to do with your opinion, it's how you deliver it. No one wants to be ridiculed for not having the money some of you have or willing to go into the debt that some of you have. No one also wants to feel inferior or less of a musician just because they can't afford what you can.

Jack

Jack,

Gear snobbishness is not the point. It's about making wise choices with your money, rather than playing Russian Roulette with it. Cheap gear = inflated specs, shoddy construction, questionable reliability, etc. Even in the cheapest of the cheap crap category, there are better ways to spend $400 bucks. There's plenty of used gear that has a good reputation to be had for less money than new stuff in the garbage category. Used, name-brand gear is a better investment in all cases than dropping a few hundred bucks on a cheap packaged all-in one PA.

It's not a race to the bottom, folks. Unfortunately it seems that more and more bands in my area are resorting to undercutting each other on price, gear, whatever....just to get on stage, and product is worse for the people PAYING for your product (patrons, club owners, etc.) If you can't afford decent used gear, find somewhere to rent it until you can buy it. Whether it's a business or just another band. Nothing irks me more than seeing bands with thousands of dollars in instruments and instrument amps going out shopping for a $500 PA. I have more respect for my band and the product I'm putting out there for others to see/hear than to invest in cheap, junk sounding PA and expecting to gig with it. It's a business decision much moreso than having anything to do with brand names.

 

[jackajesusfreak]

Jack,

Gear snobbishness is not the point. It's about making wise choices with your money, rather than playing Russian Roulette with it. Cheap gear = inflated specs, shoddy construction, questionable reliability, etc. Even in the cheapest of the cheap crap category, there are better ways to spend $400 bucks. There's plenty of used gear that has a good reputation to be had for less money than new stuff in the garbage category. Used, name-brand gear is a better investment in all cases than dropping a few hundred bucks on a cheap packaged all-in one PA.

It's not a race to the bottom, folks. Unfortunately it seems that more and more bands in my area are resorting to undercutting each other on price, gear, whatever....just to get on stage, and product is worse for the people PAYING for your product (patrons, club owners, etc.) If you can't afford decent used gear, find somewhere to rent it until you can buy it. Whether it's a business or just another band. Nothing irks me more than seeing bands with thousands of dollars in instruments and instrument amps going out shopping for a $500 PA. I have more respect for my band and the product I'm putting out there for others to see/hear than to invest in cheap, junk sounding PA and expecting to gig with it. It's a business decision much moreso than having anything to do with brand names.

Bar,

Either you didn't read my post completely or you missed the point. It's how you present your opinion and talk to people. What you said in the above post was done with a positive helpful attitude and presentation. You aren't ridiculing anyone and making them feel 'stupid' or less of a musician because they may not agree with your opinion. It's all in the attitude and approach.

Let's suppose, aftering reading the above post, I presented this situation to you and asked this question: "Bar, I understand what you are saying, but I need a system now. I can't afford anymore than 300 dollars. I play in small venues and have been using 3 15 watt guitar amps, so I know what size of a system I would need. I have not been able to find any used stuff anywhere locally here. Could you either give me somewhere to look for a used one that I haven't already looked, if not, I need to purchase either System A or System B. Between these 2, which one, if any, would you recommend?"


I would hope that you would respond by either finding out where I have already looked, and giving me other sites if you have them, or recommending one of the two systems or flat out telling me that you have no idea which one to recommend because you have no knowledge about either one because you have never owned them and do not plan on owning them.

I would rather have you not respond at all, then to respond by ridiculing me by bashing the decision I made and making me feel inferior.

Does that make sense?

Jack

 

[Barisaxman]

Bar,

Either you didn't read my post completely or you missed the point. It's how you present your opinion and talk to people. What you said in the above post was done with a positive helpful attitude and presentation. You aren't ridiculing anyone and making them feel 'stupid' or less of a musician because they may not agree with your opinion. It's all in the attitude and approach.

Let's suppose, aftering reading the above post, I presented this situation to you and asked this question: "Bar, I understand what you are saying, but I need a system now. I can't afford anymore than 300 dollars. I play in small venues and have been using 3 15 watt guitar amps, so I know what size of a system I would need. I have not been able to find any used stuff anywhere locally here. Could you either give me somewhere to look for a used one that I haven't already looked, if not, I need to purchase either System A or System B. Between these 2, which one, if any, would you recommend?"


I would hope that you would respond by either finding out where I have already looked, and giving me other sites if you have them, or recommending one of the two systems or flat out telling me that you have no idea which one to recommend because you have no knowledge about either one because you have never owned them and do not plan on owning them.

I would rather have you not respond at all, then to respond by ridiculing me by bashing the decision I made and making me feel inferior.

Does that make sense?

Jack

I'm sorry you didn't like the fact that I didn't sugarcoat my first answer, but to give you a proper response...my suggestion is neither option is a good one. I couldn't in good conscious recommend either product inn ANY circumstance, other than a coffee shop acoustic gig, especially given the relatively easy availability of good used gear fat very low prices. My comments were not about you, they were about the gear in question. It's not a personal attack of any kinds, its my opinion of some very low quality gear that is sold with fake specs and marketing hype to people with little to no knowledge of what they are spending their money on. If you take that personally, so be it.

Neither myself nor any other respectable person who deals with PA gear on a regular basis can suggest gear that mostly amounts to junk. Someone down the line who finds this thread will take it as an endorsement for a piece of substandard gear, which it is not. Rather than picking out two (or more) pieces of gear you know very little about then asking which one to buy, maybe you should consider giving us a budget and your intended use, and let us give you some recommendations. Just my $.02.

Good luck in your search for cheap PA. Remember...you get what you pay for.

 

[konodl18]

Jack, everyone here understands your situation. Try not to get offended by advice on these boards. Some people will truly just give you attitude and are gear snobs, but the vast majority are good guys that just don't want to see you waste your $. Most of us are money pinched local musicians too.

It's already been said but I will say it again, look for used gear. I don't know where you are located, but craigslist, ebay, and the classifieds are good starting points. Being patient can yield some great deals on solid used gear.

The bass amp I currently gig 4-6 times a month with is an old peavey circa 1984. Its ugly, dented, burnt, smelly and heavy. But I paid $60 for it and it brings the thunder ever time I plug it in. I would be willing to bet that none of the Behringer bass amps that are sold this year will still be gigging in 25 years. Thats just experience, no attitude. I wasted $ on some cheapo gear when I started out and wish I could have avoided it.

The other thing with cheap gear is that it is almost ALWAYS over-rated when it comes to specs. 1500 PHONIC or Behringer watts out of an amp are not 1500 QSC watts. When it comes to power specs, quality gear is under-rated, cheap gear is over-rated.

Hope this helps,
Derek

 

[jackajesusfreak]

Jack, everyone here understands your situation. Try not to get offended by advice on these boards. Some people will truly just give you attitude and are gear snobs, but the vast majority are good guys that just don't want to see you waste your $. Most of us are money pinched local musicians too.

It's already been said but I will say it again, look for used gear. I don't know where you are located, but craigslist, ebay, and the classifieds are good starting points. Being patient can yield some great deals on solid used gear.

The bass amp I currently gig 4-6 times a month with is an old peavey circa 1984. Its ugly, dented, burnt, smelly and heavy. But I paid $60 for it and it brings the thunder ever time I plug it in. I would be willing to bet that none of the Behringer bass amps that are sold this year will still be gigging in 25 years. Thats just experience, no attitude. I wasted $ on some cheapo gear when I started out and wish I could have avoided it.

The other thing with cheap gear is that it is almost ALWAYS over-rated when it comes to specs. 1500 PHONIC or Behringer watts out of an amp are not 1500 QSC watts. When it comes to power specs, quality gear is under-rated, cheap gear is over-rated.

Hope this helps,
Derek

Thanks Derek, not everyone understands but you apparently do.
Jack