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Double Bass Piano Playing means better bass playing?

emilio g

emilio g

Jul 16, 2008
304
37
Jersey City, NJ
www.emilioguarino.com
#1
I mess around on piano, but I recently decided to get some piano lessons with a grad student at school. It seems that lots of my favorite bassists are actually great piano players. Red Mitchell, Edgar Meyer, and Mingus immediately come to my mind.

I'd like to think that learning some piano will help my bass playing be more musical because I'll have a better understanding of the harmonies and how they line up with the melody. One of my teachers pointed out that my technique has come a long way and advised me to make sure that its always at the service of the music (see Anders Jormin).

Anyone have any experience with how piano relates to bass?
 
#2
Yesiree! When you mention GREAT jazz bassists who play GREAT jazz piano, please include Don Thompson in there...thanks. Also our own moderator here on TBDB, Chris Firzgerald, commonly known around here as DURRL, ain't no slouch either.
As you mention, learning the harmonies is a big one. Chordal voicings are SO important, especially to us bassists in jazz, who spend so much time being stuck down in the tonic. This, obviously, gives us a greater choice of notes AND passing tones, to make our lines more flowing and connected. Reharmonization of tunes is particularly important in this aspect.
Melodically, as you also mention, you will have to learn the melody lines of the tunes you choose to play. This gives a whole different take on improvisation, again, because it makes our ears move to a more melodic place rather than being stuck down around the root off the chord.
Control and dynamics on the piano can help you as well in your bass playing.
I think you said in your post pretty much what I've said.
You don't have to become another Red or Don, but I'd definitely go for it!
Good luck, man.
 
#3
I hated piano lessons when I was a little kid. Took them for 10 or more years. Hated every minute.

Best thing I EVER did. The foundation has lasted me my lifetime and everything I do in music relates to that learning.

It was essential. You can bet little Baby V is gonna suffer the same fate.
 
#4
A big part of it is also that (as I've stated all over the place) I don't learn tunes easily, so I need to concentrate in that department. Some of my friends can practice Confirmation for an hour or two and have it down where it takes me like 3 times as long. Some of my friends are also pretty nasty players, but I'd like to eventually get to that level myself! So I think learning music on a different instrument would help my ear and memory.

One guy I met through school who really amazes me, learned alto sax, piano, and drums from a fairly young age. He totes himself as a drummer, but sounds awesome on the other instruments as well. For the longest time I was scratching my head as to how he plays THREE instruments so well and I'm struggling with one. First, he's about 10 years older than me and second, those three instruments compliment each other well.
 
#5
I'm a jazz pianist who recently took up the bass, so my perspective will be a bit different... but that said, I am sure that my ability to pick up bass lines fairly quickly has been aided by my piano playing.

I hear harmonies and know chords fairly well and I also knew bass lines from walking with my left hand on the piano.

I think the two instruments really complement each other. After playing some more bass, I've also realized that it's helped my piano playing.
 
#7
Emilio, I'm ALL FOR learning at least to play arranger's piano (if not more), but I'm a little unsure how you expect this to help you learn tunes faster. All of the stuff that you are having problems with - root movement, chord quality, melody - are still going to be there.
 
#8
I'm not sure what Ed means by "arranger's piano". I do know that my piano ability at the moment is pretty weak. Just putting shell voicings together with melody and playing it slowly takes a while, however when I do put in the time, tunes tend to stick with me more permanently. I realize its not a silver bullet, but I think learning some more about voicing and technique might be a useful tool.
 
#10
I've taken a few piano lessons myself. I was pretty good at it, but it wasn't a realized passion... Anyhow, it helps every part of your musical intellect. Even finger independance and basic theory are strengthened with the piano. You learn different chord voicings and study up on the options you have for bassline sound.

Not to mention everybody likes to pick up a new instrument once in awhile...
 
#15
Practicing the bass is the best way to get better at playing bass. Getting to the point where you can play triple stops in tune helps.
Piano or any chordal instrument is really going to help you learn tunes and become a better instrument.
I would love more piano skills and even though my mom teaches classical piano I never learned it from her.
I did learn theory and basic guitar from her, though.
When I want to really learn a jazz tune I will learn all the chords on bass guitar, that is nice because the hand shapes translate closer to double bass.
I also do not have a piano in my apt.
Another good plan is to do some duo practice with pianists and guitar players.
I also listen to a ton of solo piano music.
 
#17
Arranger's piano just means that you can play the harmony of a tune reasonably in rhythm with some ability to voice lead/multiple chord voicings etc. Nobody's going to hire you for a gig, but you can comp through a tune.

Again, YES playing piano is a good thing, but getting a methodology for learning a tune and hearing your way through a tune is NOT predicated on learning another instrument.
 
#19
Ed Fuqua said:
Again, YES playing piano is a good thing, but getting a methodology for learning a tune and hearing your way through a tune is NOT predicated on learning another instrument.
Click to expand...
I'm the process of learning basically what you describe as arrangers piano.

ED, IMSE, piano playing is accelerating my ability to learn tunes. This is mainly that I can internally hear the progressions alot more clearer when they relate to the roots and the melody. I start feeling like I have a little internal tone guide that I can sing my lines to - similar to the solo voice guide. For the first time, I memorized a new tune in 2 choruses (it was a simple tune) and picked a couple variations on the fly esp once learning some of the head. I feel like I can nail the internal ear diff between a 6 or a b57 chord.

Add to that learning comping rhythms from a different perspective always helps your time (well just about any time exercises will do just that for that matter). But you're still right, it doesn't depend on learning piano but I tell ya, it sure helps!
 
#20
Playing through chords is an important step in getting the tune down and playing it with any sort of depth, IMO. As I said I do it on my acoustic bass guitar. I learn the melody arco, then the arpeggios arco, then the chords on BG, then I start looking at bass lines and solos.

I would still recommend getting a decent grasp on the instrument itself before trying to get in depth with tunes.

I have run across many terrible bassists that have hundreds of tunes memorized, with just a bit more effort you can be a good bass player who has lots of tunes memorized and can read down new ones without a lot of strain.
When you are ready, check Ed's thread about really learning a tune.
 

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