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Pine bass tester

I have decided (after recent suggestions) to build a bass out of pine before building the bass that I plan on building to get a better feel for bass building adventures. When building this bass (pine) should I build a 3 peice neck or just shape it from a 2x4? If I intend on putting a top on the bass should I do this with additional pine on the body? I guess what I want to know is if I need to do ALL the steps involved in the actuall bass that I want to build.
 
Depends on what kind of tools you have...If you have proper tools, like band saws and planners then go ahead. If you don't and your going to do things unconventionally, or by hand, then just take your time on the good one. That is the best advice I can give to any new builder...TAKE YOUR TIME. you're trying to make a good instrument, not a quick one. Fight the temptation to get the bass done quick and get it done right, no matter how long it takes.
 
I have at my disposal; band saw, planer, jouner, ossilating drum sander, belt sander routers, ect.

I saw a video in the roscoe forum of them cutting the belly contour with what looked to be a angle grinder conected to an air compresor. I thought about trying this as well. Has anyone tried this?
 
good call on the practice body and neck!

exactly how many practice pieces to make and to what level of detail will depend on your satisfaction with the results you achieve. I made several bodies before I had my first one I considered to be of acceptable quality to move forward ... and if I built one like it today it would be destined for the scrap heap for sure

something else to keep in mind ... it's never too late to build a 'learning body/neck' if you're working with a new material. take for example Madrone burl - if you've never worked with specific wood before, know that it's OK to use a lessor grade piece of material to build a test body/neck/etc to learn about any specific modifications you may need to incorporate into your workflow when using it for the first time. (in the case of Madrona, it burns very easily and deep with a router bit while also loving to move and crack ... keep your tools sharp, work with it immediately upon machining the pieces, and finish it asap. all of these nuances will make the job consistently less frustrating than following a very similar workflow that might be used for Maple or Ash)

same for hand tools - some woods I prefer to utilize micro planes closer to the finished contour than others, some I use micro planes and a belt sander, and some I use micro planes plus a belt sander plus a spokeshave ... which combo to use depends on both the wood and the grain orientation of the body or neck I am carving.

all the best on your first project!

R
 
can anyone say 13 string bass? :D

I think its a good idea to build a mock up and something I mentioned before in another thread. Should I ever get the chance to build a bass I would do the same.

if it were me I build a sort of prototype of what I would intend to build once the real wood is to be used
 
I have at my disposal; band saw, planer, jouner, ossilating drum sander, belt sander routers, ect.

I saw a video in the roscoe forum of them cutting the belly contour with what looked to be a angle grinder conected to an air compresor. I thought about trying this as well. Has anyone tried this?

Oh so then you're in GREAT shape. I didn't have that kind of stuff when I started building, I had to do most things by hand and I got impatient REALLY fast...
 
Awesome! Great call on the practice piece (and you may really end up liking the sound of pine too!)

Things to think about: Build templates. It's good to get into the practice of making good, precise templates. They help oh so much. Templates for neck, body outline, pickup cavities, neck/body join cavity, headstock...

What kind of wood for the neck? U said a 2 X 4.....maybe consider getting some cheap but STRAIGHT maple, like 3-4 pieces of .75" maple and glueing/laminating them. Might even be able to get 2 necks out of it in case one goes haywire :smug: Learning how to glue neck lams without slippage, warpage, and gaps is good practice. Use too many clamps. More is better. Figure out how to keep things from slippin' and slidin'.

Be patient. No hurry no worry. Glue/clamp and let be for a while. After you take the clamps off, let sit and chill out for a week or two before you take it to the metal. Let it become one with the chilly WINTER environment.
You can make your templates while you're chillin' out, and make sure you can visually understand the process of the next step before doing it.
 
i was thinking about doing this exact same thing before i start my first "real" build. i think im going to use lumber yard maple and mahogany just in case it comes out halfway decent i could still use it. pine just seems too soft. i know some people will disagree with that but the woods that i would like to eventually build with (wenge, ash, walnut, etc) are alot harder than pine so maple and ,mahogany might be better experience
 
Thanks for all the replies. Right now I am finishing tweaking my design and probably today or tomorrow I will go and buy some butcher paper to draw it out full scale. I have to make it through Christmas before I can make anymore purchases so it will probably be a week or 2 before I make to the depot. As of now I plan on all pine but I will keep my eyes open for other possible options when I am there. Once I finish my design I will post some pics for feed back.
 
Use too many clamps. More is better.
OK, a question I've always wondered about. A slight tangent, but I think an appropriate one.

I've heard of getting a low-strength joint because it is "glue-starved". If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that this can result from too much squeeze-out, from too much clamp force. Am I remembering wrong? Does anyone have any experience with this?

:confused:
 
OK, a question I've always wondered about. A slight tangent, but I think an appropriate one.

I've heard of getting a low-strength joint because it is "glue-starved". If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that this can result from too much squeeze-out, from too much clamp force. Am I remembering wrong? Does anyone have any experience with this?

:confused:


i'm by no means experienced with building instruments, but in more general woodworking, i always used more clamps for more evenly spaced pressure across a joint rather than more clamping force...not to put words in anyone's mouth, but this could be his intent with the 'more is better' idea
 
I've heard of getting a low-strength joint because it is "glue-starved". If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that this can result from too much squeeze-out, from too much clamp force. Am I remembering wrong? Does anyone have any experience with this?

This topic comes up regularly at school.

Using clamping cauls can significantly reduce the number of clamps you need, speeding the glue-up process while improving results. This is because the forces exerted by clamps are radiated along a 45-degree vector from the clamp face; using cauls of appropriate thickness enables clamping forces to overlap while using fewer clamps. Using fewer clamps also imposes self-regulation re: max clamp pressure that can be applied.

Using appropriate clamps is important because different kinds of clamps are capable of exerting different forces (see manufacturer's literature for each clamp). A starved glue joint is less likely when you select appropriate cauls and clamps to begin with. A clamp that's too weak will result in an inconsistent or incomplete bond with voids and bubbles. A light-duty clamp will distort, and can be permanently damaged, if overtightened. A high-pressure clamp will begin to crush wood fibers when overtightened, a clue that you may be using too much pressure.

When I'm clamping a multiple-layer lamination, or attaching a top skin to a bass body, my clamping tool of choice is a vacuum bag with a torsion-box platen; under perfect conditions (which none of experience), a vacuum bag is theoretically capable of exerting 14.7 psi at sea level. I've never experienced a starved glue joint using a vacuum bag - provided that I use the right glue and apply it correctly.

When gluing multiple layers, selecting adhesives that offer abundant open-time and don't "creep" is important to me. I like urea-formaldehyde adhesives like Unibond-800 and Weldwood plastic cement, and epoxies; Resorcinol is also a contender if a reddish-brown glue line isn't objectionable.

You are likely to experience a glue-line failure that mimics a starved joint if the proportions of resin to hardener (or water to powder) aren't correct, or when a two-part adhesive hasn't been mixed correctly. You'll see the same thing if you don't apply enough glue, if the glue skins over before you clamp your project, and when your glue hasn't been applied in a uniform film thickness. I use a short-napped roller to quickly apply a consistent film of adhesive.

Good luck with your project! :)
 
This topic comes up regularly at school.

...
Thanks for the wealth of information. :) Given that background, I'll modify the question.

Given a properly mixed adhesive, even application of adhesive in appropriate quantity, full observance of allowable open time, and a clamp/caul setup that applies pressure evenly: is it possible to apply too much pressure, because this squeezes out too much glue, leaving too little behind to make a strong/proper joint? Or perhaps, given the assumptions just listed, is it so unlikely as to be not a worry (even if it is not known for certain whether it is possible)?
 
I highly, highly doubt you can starve a glue joint using support cauls along with your clamps. I don't think it's possible to accomplish this using the standard / expensive clamps meant for woodworking out on the market. I use some Bessey parallel jaw clamps that can put out an insane amount of direct pressure, using titebond I have never starved a glue joint. Although I have never had the need to use full clamp pressure for anything luthiery related. If you're having to put much more pressure in one specific area of the body / neck you're gluing together, chances are what you're gluing together isn't properly jointed in the first place.

Ever since I have had the proper tools to achieve flawless (or near flawless) joints, it has taken me much less time to glue up a body or neck because it fits together without any fuss.
 
It is an interesting question in a theoretical sense, but now I am curious as to why you are so inquisitive. Is there something specific behind the question?

I think if you clamp without cauls and the material is thin enough (like a finger board) you can most certainly starve the joint right at the point of clamping. You would really have to crank on the clamp though. More to the point is that this over pressure can cause what is known as "pillowing". That is, the wood lifts slightly around the center of the clamping force. This causes lumpy and bumpy surfaces that are not consistently bonded.

In the acoustic world we talk about "minimum adequate structure". I think that applies to clamping pressure as well. Enough is enough and more is not beneficial. In extreme cases it can hurt.

Greg N