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Pink Floyd - The Wall

Pink Floyd - The Wall

  • Commercial

    Votes: 3 4.2%
  • Ambigous (not commercial, not not commercial)

    Votes: 14 19.7%
  • Not Commercial

    Votes: 41 57.7%
  • Another Carrot in the Wall Part III

    Votes: 13 18.3%

  • Total voters
    71
I like this comment. I'm one of those people who really loves a giant soul-crushing steamroller driver over me by Roger Waters, but I'm weird that way. I was always surprised when anyone's criticism of this album was, "it's too commercial," because when it came out, they desperately tried to find the single on rock radio. They released "Hey You," and while it's a good song, I didn't see it as one everyone would sing along to.

The funky bassline and sing-along quality of "Another Brick in the Wall Part II," does qualify it as a potentially commercial song, but it starts with helicopters, insane teachers, and has a ridiculously cumbersome name. There is no way Waters was writing that one thinking, "this will be on American Bandstand for sure!" I know "Comfortably Numb," "Young Lust," and "Run Like Hell" ended up becoming rock radio staples, but surely no one thinks that is by design. The Wall is a very dark, and harrowing story, and I don't blame anyone who wants to get as far away from it as possible.

I also agree with the posters who say it's no "Dark Side" or "Wish You Were Here," but thematically, it's a great next step from Animals, and sonically, it's sort of a return to earlier form in a lot of ways, while taking a few steps in a new direction.

It's Pink Floyd for the end of the seventies, an era where we lost Lennon; gained the Reagan Revolution; stopped trying to go to the moon, and basically became a material worship culture after all the "let's party" vibe of that hole left after the Cultural Revolution broke down.

I love it, but I don't blame anyone who doesn't.

It just irks me when the given reason is "it's too commercial."

Grrrrrrrr.
With you all the way: I'm Mad Too, Mellow! To try to taint this masterpiece as some sort of sell out is: nonsense. It does signal a change in sound as it is for all intent and purposes the first Waters solo lp.
Now, afterwards if: the Final Cut and Hitchhiking Kaos Amused to Death et al… were huge commercial hits… Come on, I still couldn't call the music commercial (that's for jingles that sell air conditioning). Floyd was hitting number 1 in album charts with each lp after Dark Side (excepting Animals); all noncommercial efforts.
f!

also, don't believe the hype!
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...ous-fans-i-am-not-part-of-pink-floyd-20141002
 
I like the Wall. At the time, before I was aware of the band members and their story, I thought it was one of the best concept albums of all time. I still think it is, but now knowing what I know it comes off as pre-grunge emo. Fantastic songs, and Gilmour's second best album. IMO
 
I've never heard of the "Commercial" label tagged on the WALL album. I thought it had a lot of good songs and the concept was a little too long, but the movie was great. However, I think the Dark Side of the Moon was better in that it was ground breaking in terms of concept albums. It's hard to top one of the biggest selling albums of all time, but the Wall was a very close second. I must have had over 6 or 7 Dark Side of the Moon albums from Vinyl and cassette to remastered CDs.
 
I bought the double vinyl LP the day it was released in the States.

I took it home, put it on the stereo record player, and put on the stereo headphones.

I listened to the four sides in order, without interruption, while studying the gatefold artwork, lyrics, and liner notes. And I closed my eyes and let the movie play.

As the closing theme played, I had an upheaval of emotion and cried uncontrollably. Best. Concept. Album. Ever.
 
One of the great concept albums of all time.
Musically it has a different feel than what PF had done up until then and I think that was both intentional and a good decision. After all, it would be virtually impossible to create another Dark Side of the Moon, a band only gets one of those, and trying to catch lightning in a bottle a second time is a fool's quest.
The songs that were/are constantly given airplay, in a sense takes them out of context of the musical narrative and diminish them from the impact of the whole which is a relentlessly brutal, dark work of art. The genius of the music is that it does somewhat soften the grinding spiral into utter despair that the lyrics portray. Despite this there is no light at the end of the tunnel, it goes all the way to the bottom and leaves you there.
It is surprising that it was as commercially successful as it was.
 
Commercial or not, ( it's not), The Wall is one of my "Mount Rushmore Of Albums" records. I prefer it over Dark Side Of The Moon by a long shot. The entire album has an undertone of darkness and psychosis--a feat which Roger Waters hasn't really pulled of since.

For me, the best thing about this album is that it's a legitimate look into a man's mindset when he was severely damaged, and has admitted as much. Authenticity is hard to come by in mega-popular rock music, and I think Roger was going out of his tiny mind at this time, and shared it with the world.
 
For me, the best thing about this album is that it's a legitimate look into a man's mindset when he was severely damaged, and has admitted as much. Authenticity is hard to come by in mega-popular rock music, and I think Roger was going out of his tiny mind at this time, and shared it with the world.

Yep, it really epitomizes the vulnerability of the human psyche, the soft white underbelly, what happens when we give in to impulse and excess, and how the conscience preys upon us, turning us into our own worst enemy as we desperately try to pin the blame on everyone and everything around us. Such rich lyricism and economy of motion combining anecdote with metaphor, he takes a rather complex subject and drives it home. Almost a perfect marriage of lyric, music, and subject treatment. Waters really nailed it in a way he hasn't done before or since.

Either Waters really was going out of his tiny mind, or he has that unique power the best writers have of immersing himself in character, or some combination of the two. It is at least semi-autobiographical.

I think it's important to note that The Wall can't really be fully understood by those who have only heard the select FM radio cuts or "hits." Those songs need to be experienced in the context of the album as a whole and chronologically to be fully appreciated.
 
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I think it's important to note that The Wall can't really be fully understood by those who have only heard the select FM radio cuts or "hits." Those songs need to be experienced in the context of the album as a whole and chronologically to be fully appreciated.

Yes--exactly. The entire album is really one 80 minute song.

I'd like to add, also, that in addition to listening to the entire album, it should be done with headphones and in a darkened room--for the real psychological effect.
 
The Wall is magnificent if for nothing else it's integration of a Gomer Pyle episode into one of the songs. Gomer's trademark "Surprise, Surprise, Surprise" is perfectly placed for maximum irony and effect.

So, 1984, high school talent show, my girlfriend and I do "Nobody Home". I had been rejected for entry the previous year attempting to do a quartet version of the Mr. Bubble commercial jingle.

This time we get serious, I buy the wall song book, she gets her piano teacher to help her and Floyd vocals are right in my wheelhouse. I don't remember exactly how it came to be but my buddy sits next to me and his job is to repeat the "fly to, fly to..." part. He holds my old trombone but never plays it. We sit stone faced, side by side, wearing rose colored John Lennon style round glasses as she plays the upright piano.

During tryouts I changed 13 channels of $#@! to hits. During the show, well, how could I resist. A few lines later one of the teachers jumps onstage and grabs the mic, the curtains close, the students all start booing and leave the auditorium in protest. Mayhem in the halls.

It was a widely held opinion we would have won, such was the weakness of the competition. This is probably why I'm not an uber famous musician today and was spared the mental and emotional anguish expressed by Waters in The Wall.

Side note, the teacher that stormed the stage in righteous indignation later left his wife, a school counselor, for a sophomore. His affection for sophomores was easily noted by students but apparently the administration couldn't tell. He was one of 4 of my high school teachers that were eventually fired for illicit sexual activity with students which we all knew was ongoing. This contributed to my antiauthoritarian outlook that continues to this day.

Still got the book.

FullSizeRender.jpg
 
For me, the best thing about this album is that it's a legitimate look into a man's mindset when he was severely damaged, and has admitted as much. Authenticity is hard to come by in mega-popular rock music, and I think Roger was going out of his tiny mind at this time, and shared it with the world.

Yep. Authentic is the word. I was a whopping 11 years old when it came out. It was only the third album I ever owned. I probably got it for the sexy, disco guitar of We Don't Need No Education but I DID understood that song for what it really was about... unlike the majority of kids who just liked it because it represented the typical kid's dislike of going to school. My young life experiences had already programmed me to be a bit melancholy and I'm pretty sure this album cemented that tendency and I felt bad for the author. Remember, at only 11 years old. I could listen to the whole thing over and over and, for me, that has happened with very few albums even to this day. It was probably the first authentic, albeit it pretty miserable, thing I had ever heard. And the music was fantastic (and, understandably, probably a little too hooky for the typical Floyd fan and I suspect that they'd like it more if they didn't have the association of all of the joyous newcomers that didn't know the darkness that was Pink Floyd). I have yet to get around to listening to other Pink Floyd that didn't get radio play. I hope I like it.

Someone early in the thread quoted David Gilmour saying The Wall was just more of Waters blaming everyone but himself... I love Gilmour but I'm pretty sure, from the relatively little I've heard, that Pink Floyd became great in large part because of the miserable-feeling mind that created the melancholic moods of Floyd... the mind of Waters. He seemed pretty real back then. Not sure what I think of him now.
 
I think David Gilmore's assessment of the record sums it up best: The Wall is nothing more than Roger Waters blaming all of his problems on everybody else.

I think Gilmore (much as I admire him and his guitar work) needs to climb down off his high horse a bit. The whole 'Floyd Feud' would have been over and forgotten ages ago if he didn't keep wearing it like some weird sort of badge of honor. Time to either make up or move on, Dave. :meh:
 
. I love Gilmour but I'm pretty sure, from the relatively little I've heard, that Pink Floyd became great in large part because of the miserable-feeling mind that created the melancholic moods of Floyd... the mind of Waters. He seemed pretty real back then. Not sure what I think of him now.

This!

I think 90% of Floyd's appeal is attributable that bleak and desolate vibe that runs through every song. You've got a totally detached and withdrawn song character surrounded by some of the most emotionally intense instrumental playing ever recorded in rock. The contrast is addictive. To me it just sums up the whole living nightmare of depression and despair:

"I've got wild staring eyes…
And I've got a strong urge to fly…

But I got nowhere to fly to…
"

I don't think anybody can take you on a walk through the dark night of the soul as convincingly as the combination of RW's lyrics and DG's guitar, coupled with the rest of Floyd does.
 
Pink Floyd - The Wall is one of the most amazing of all concept albums ever created. It has the most coherent story, that's for sure. A kid's dad goes off to war and gets killed. The kid is raised by an overbearing mother; attends schools with overbearing teachers; marries a woman who he mistreats and cheats on, and who, in turn, mistreats and cheats on him. He becomes a rock star, abuses drugs, embraces fascism, and goes insane.

It's a very nice piece of art, and as hard as Roger Waters tried to make it dark, depressing, scary and cruel, his musical collaborator, David Gilmore kept throwing in pretty guitars, and adding just enough light to give the story a level of depth even Waters could not have achieved on his own.

Why then, do most Pink Floyd fans who dislike this album complain it is too commercial?

Of the 26 songs on this record, only 5 get much radio play:

1. Another Brick in the Wall Part II (Number 1 Single UK, US, Number 2 Australia)
2. Comfortably Numb (did not chart as a single)
3. Young Lust (did not chart as a single)
4. Run Like Hell (Number 53 US)
5. Hey You (did not chart)

Now, granted, the album sold a bazillion copies, but not as many as Dark Side of the Moon. Some of the songs have catchy, Motown-ish bass lines, (mostly due to David Gilmore's influence,) but this album is very, very personal. It combines Roger Waters biography, his own mental breakdown, and bad attitude towards people with the sad story of Syd Barrett, and has a ton of social commentary, and very heavy, dangerous subject matter.

It has lyrics like,

You better run all day
And run all night.
Keep your dirty feelings
Deep inside.
And if you're taking your girlfriend
Out tonight
You'd better park the car
Well out of sight.
Cause if they catch you in the back seat
Trying to pick her locks,
They're gonna send you back to mother
In a cardboard box.
You better run.


and

Day after day, love turns grey
Like the skin of a dying man.
Night after night, we pretend its all right
But I have grown older and
You have grown colder and
Nothing is very much fun any more.
And I can feel one of my turns coming on.
I feel cold as a razor blade,
Tight as a tourniquet,
Dry as a funeral drum.


and the darkest, bleakest lyrics since Lou Reed's Berlin:

Ooooh Babe.
Dont leave me now.
How could you go?
When you know how I need you
To beat to a pulp on a Saturday night
Ooooh Babe.


I can't think of a commercial album with lyrics such as these, especially sang (spat out) in such jaded desperation as Waters commits to on these vocals. This album feels utterly real, and legitimate to me, as Roger Waters is taking on the persona of a truly horrible, hateful man, who has lost touch with his humanity.

"The Trial," has always felt, to me, like Waters indicting himself, for being a jaded, cynical bastard, who had become hard to deal with, and impossible to live with. The man started with anger towards his fans, and ended up with hatred towards himself.

The previous album, "Animals," showed where he was headed, as a songwriter. How can such a wealthy, and successful person feel so much pain? I've always ascribed it to mental illness.

When the film, "The Wall" came out, a friend of mine had gone to see it, and was sorely disappointed.

"Its not what you think its about," he glumly told me, and I told him I had listened to the album through headphones enough times that I was sure I knew exactly what it was about.

I described the film scene by scene, based on the songs on the album. He was amazed, and thought I was messing with him.

"You saw it," he taunted, but I hadn't. Plus, I hadn't gotten everything right, as they switched up some of the music. I correctly surmised the beginning; the "Goodbye Blue Sky" part; (it reminded me of my own mother, who was a child when the German planes flew over Scotland,) and what most surprised him was how well I described the "Comfortably Numb" part, and Pink (Bob Geldof)'s transformation into a Nazi-like character.

The album/film was never pro-racism; pro-totalitarianism, or any of those things; from my perspective it was ANTI all those things; at least that's how it looked through MY lens. Because in good art, it's not just up to the artist to make a statement; it is also up to the audience to perceive that statement.

When this album came out, I was 16 years old; highly impressionable, and listening to the other double record masterpiece of that year, "London Calling," by the Clash. I had my feet firmly in the worlds of Punk Rock, Classic Rock, and experiments in Reggae, New Wave, Jazz Fusion, and of course, my first love: Classical Music.

Pink Floyd - The Wall is not by any means the best album the band released. I would still have to say their big three of Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here and Animals contain a body of work that would be hard to rival. Still, every album was harder to follow than the one before, and in the case of The Wall, that would be it. They might still have put out some good songs, but never again did the band, or Waters as a solo artist put out something so deep, coherent, lovely, dark, and influential, nor did many or even any bands.

So if you want to call it "too commercial," your opinion is as valid as anyone's, but for me, that album was as far from purposely commercial as any I've ever heard.

A truly monumental album, that has stood the test of time remarkably well.
I've always thought of the album as a mixed biography of Syd and Rodger.

I voted ambiguous because I think the "disco" beat was intentionally given to Another Brick in the wall for quite commercial purposes. And quite successfully so.
 
Ok this is my opinion and only my opinion. I was in high school at the time and everyone who was a Floyd fan (including me) had been hearing a lot of pre release hype about the new album. It had been quite a period of time since their last release so when it came out, it received good reviews and a good bit of air play on local FM stations. Of course, the movie helped make it a mainstream success. That's where I think all the "old" Floyd fans started whining about the "commercialism" of the album. Up until that point, Pink Floyd was definitely NOT mainstream and I think the older fans still wanted that to be true. I don't for one minute think that Pink Floyd put out "The Wall" intending it to be the commercial success it turned out to be. And I remember most fans at that time believing the album was pretty much about Syd Barrett. Some people just want to be the "cool" people listening to their secret stash of music that is out of the mainstream. It's kinda like punk, once it caught on with the masses, the party was over. Now, have I dated myself or What??
I graduated from high school in 1972. I was a moderate fan of PF. What ramped it up for me (and before The Wall) was this: At the planetarium in the Pacific Science center in Seattle (old 1962 Worlds Fair site that had the Space Needle) they had something called Pink Floyd Laserium. We'd get high* and watch fantastic laser lights on the planetarium dome done to Pink Floyd - mostly older stuff. I believe this was even before "Wish You Were Here".

*I've not touched the stuff since 1977.
 
Ok this is my opinion and only my opinion. I was in high school at the time and everyone who was a Floyd fan (including me) had been hearing a lot of pre release hype about the new album. It had been quite a period of time since their last release so when it came out, it received good reviews and a good bit of air play on local FM stations. Of course, the movie helped make it a mainstream success. That's where I think all the "old" Floyd fans started whining about the "commercialism" of the album. Up until that point, Pink Floyd was definitely NOT mainstream and I think the older fans still wanted that to be true. I don't for one minute think that Pink Floyd put out "The Wall" intending it to be the commercial success it turned out to be. And I remember most fans at that time believing the album was pretty much about Syd Barrett. Some people just want to be the "cool" people listening to their secret stash of music that is out of the mainstream. It's kinda like punk, once it caught on with the masses, the party was over. Now, have I dated myself or What??
It is said that Woodstock killed the hippie movement. It became too mainstream.
 
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