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Play gently to keep clean?

bigboy_78

bigboy_78

Jun 1, 2011
1,362
2,089
Coraki, Australia
#1
So two gigs this weekend and I had the same problem at both, so I think I’m doing something wrong. Both smallish mid-sized venues. Each night started with a good fat tone, but by the end of the night I sounded like I was all twang and no meat and I was getting distortion (like hitting the limit distortion) through my rig.

Set up was Squier VMP5> TH500>CN212 which should have had plenty clean power. I’m thinking maybe as the room filled up, and the band (drums) got louder, I didn’t make any adjustments to my amp and just started playing harder. Would that cause the low end to drop out some? I wouldn’t think digging in would overdrive the TH500 at low levels. Gain was a bit past noon, no Drive, Mid Freq & Level just past noon as well. Master was about 11’oclock. So my rig was barley on really.

Should I be playing lighter and letting my rig work a bit harder if I want good fat & clean, or am I maybe using the wrong amp?
 
#7
bigboy_78 said:
So your saying I probably sounded the same at the end of the night, I'm just hearing it differently. Messing with my setting at that point could be counterproductive?
Click to expand...

Yes. I've run into that many times myself with.....um....overzealous players. Once they learned music didn't need to be overly loud we kept 95% of our audience at closing time and much less ear fatigue.
 
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#10
Just FYI my TH-350 with a 4 ohm 600w 2x12 can keep up with a pair of fully cranked non-master 100w guitar halfstacks if I don't mind a bit of crunch (which I don't :D) - and that's holy-arfin' loud :wideyed:. I used it as backline at a multiband benefit at a ~300 cap venue and it easily outran the half decent JBL PA even clean :cool:.
 
#11
Sounds like I’ve been running my amp backwards. Rookie error, eh?
I’ve always been hesitant to push the master past noon on my amps, probably a throwback to the playing cheap “radioshack” amps as a kid. They went to 11 but blew up if you pushed them past halfway.
 
#12
bigboy_78 said:
Sounds like I’ve been running my amp backwards. Rookie error, eh?
I’ve always been hesitant to push the master past noon on my amps, probably a throwback to the playing cheap “radioshack” amps as a kid. They went to 11 but blew up if you pushed them past halfway.
Click to expand...
Masters on amps are a relatively recent invention - to allow them to overdrive (the preamp) at less than full volume. Preamp overdrive doesn't sound as good as output tube overdrive so the real pro's either use pedals to simulate it better or power attenuators to get "the real thing" at lower volumes. I have one of the latter on my Ashdown CTM-30 (30 w all tube bass amp) :cool:.
 
#13
Ear fatigue is one likely cause but the other, lesser known factor, is alcohol consumption and it's effect on your ability to hear lower bass frequencies. Don't know if you drink during your gigs but, again, you likely sound the same to everyone else and it's just your ability to hear that's impacted. Don't touch your dials once you've set your sound for the evening.

Alcohol and the Loud Bassist: A Cautionary Tale | Reverb

Likewise, on my TC head, the gain controls the DI level so my gain is set to right around 11 o'clock to feed FOH and my master is where I adjust for stage volume. I play with a REALLY loud guitar player (aren't they all?!) so I typically set my master at 4:00-5:00. Not quite dimed but close.
 
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#14
Sometimes my ears "go" after long and particularly loud perfomances. When that (occasionally) happens every note sounds muddy and almost monotone. If possible wear ear protection and don't stand so close to your amp or monitors. That was my advise to myself! I think it will work for you too.
 
#15
Ear fatigue and if alcohol consumption (if you were drinking) will definitely affect your hearing.

If you respond by playing harder you can just exasperate the situation. Plucking the note harder can change the envelope of the note, cause fret buzz, clank etc and if you pluck super hard notes just fart out. This can make you perceive your tone if the mix differently thereby making you feel the tone lacks "meat".

When the volume goes up or ear fatigue sets in try to have faith that if it sounded good at the beginning of the night it still does. Resist the urge to player harder or fiddle with knobs.

When I had my TH500 it would start distorting with the gain that high. If you don't want distortion back off the gain and raise the master.
 
#17
I wanted to make a joke about the bass being the culprit. Because it is passive and lazy. They are the couch potatoes of the bass world. You need an active bass. They are go getters.
I can't find a way to make that funny though. I'm posting the pieces so someone with talent can't rewrite it. Sorry about the bad sound.
If it's your ears or the drinking, you can only quit drinking or quit listening.
I know which one I'd choose...no one gets in between me and my liqueur. NOBODY!
 
#19
Jamvan said:
Ear fatigue is one likely cause but the other, lesser known factor, is alcohol consumption and it's effect on your ability to hear lower bass frequencies. Don't know if you drink during your gigs but, again, you likely sound the same to everyone else and it's just your ability to hear that's impacted. Don't touch your dials once you've set your sound for the evening.

Alcohol and the Loud Bassist: A Cautionary Tale | Reverb

Likewise, on my TC head, the gain controls the DI level so my gain is set to right around 11 o'clock to feed FOH and my master is where I adjust for stage volume. I play with a REALLY loud guitar player (aren't they all?!) so I typically set my master at 4:00-5:00. Not quite dimed but close.
Click to expand...
Interesting link
 
#20
bigboy_78 said:
So two gigs this weekend and I had the same problem at both, so I think I’m doing something wrong. Both smallish mid-sized venues. Each night started with a good fat tone, but by the end of the night I sounded like I was all twang and no meat and I was getting distortion (like hitting the limit distortion) through my rig.

Set up was Squier VMP5> TH500>CN212 which should have had plenty clean power. I’m thinking maybe as the room filled up, and the band (drums) got louder, I didn’t make any adjustments to my amp and just started playing harder. Would that cause the low end to drop out some? I wouldn’t think digging in would overdrive the TH500 at low levels. Gain was a bit past noon, no Drive, Mid Freq & Level just past noon as well. Master was about 11’oclock. So my rig was barley on really.

Should I be playing lighter and letting my rig work a bit harder if I want good fat & clean, or am I maybe using the wrong amp?
Click to expand...

Gain past noon is VERY hot for that amp, and will definitely give you some grit and grind...that's literally what's made for.

If you want a clean tone, try the gain at 9 o'clock and set the master accordingly
 
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