Played and compared 5ers yesterday. (Question with rant)

[hyp.spec]

I've played both and would pick the BTB hands down over the SR, because it's got a better B. Plus, the higher-end BTBs have Bartolini pickups... a nice addition. Any particular reason you DON'T want the extra scale length? Just curious.

5sg

Higher end SR's also have Bartolini's....


the SR505 and up all have bartolini pickups.

the MAJOR difference between a BTB and an SR is the string spacing. The SR's are alot closer, while the BTB's are spread out.

 

[Ric5]

The best low B I ever played was a Ibanez 305dx ... a fairly cheap bass ... but the bass had a kinda harsh tone ...

Getting good low B performance has a lot to do with a good setup and a good set of strings.

If you are a pick player then a Rickenbacker 4003s5 might be a good 5 string bass for you.

Also for me on a 5 string bass I like to turn down the bass and turn up the mids to get a good definition on the low B.

 

[bullshark]

I'm going to bring science into this discussion.

Different strings at a given pitch will only have different tensions if they're of a different weight per unit of length, or of a different length.

Subjectively, it can seem otherwise. A higher nut may give the impression of a higher tension, since it will take more pressure to fret a note, and slapping an open string is less likely to rattle. Same is true for higher action or more relief.

If you tune any two strings to the same pitch, their deflection under a given force will be set entirely by the string's mass(ignoring the negligible differences of string stiffness, etc.) Any gimmick which is supposed to give a "tighter B string" is pretty much BS.

The only gimmick which I've ever seen that I would expect to effect string tension in any way is to extend the length of non-vibrating string at the headstock/bridge, and this difference would be very small, and would actually be in the opposite direction that is often claimed. It would very slightly reduce the amount of force requred for a given deflection, making the string very slightly more floppy, but possibly improving intonation by an equally insignificant amount.

I think what it comes down to is, use fatter and more importantly heavier strings, increase your action, get a longer scale, or just turn up your amp and play a little lighter.

Ah, the voice of reason. Although I'm wondering if the mass of the neck itself wouldn't come into play enough to make a perceivable difference? The initial plucking force is transmitted, and partly absorbed, to/by it after all.

 

[bassdaddy5]

Have you considered not getting a 5 string. Why don't you experiment stinging your 4 sting B,E,A,D. This will give you some time to get used to the feel of a B string. You may decide after a while that you don't like it. You may want to look into a heavier gauge E string and play in drop D. That is my preference. When playing metal you really want to hold down the "bottom" end so I dought you'll miss that G string a whole lot if you string B to D. An added bonus is that buying 4 strings is cheaper than buying 5.

 

[The_Owl]

I actually just played them unplugged...

There's your problem. A B-string might feel a bit floppy when you are playing it unplugged, but the real test is how it actually sounds amplified.

I've tried a lot of 34" 5-strings that had B-strings that felt floppy, but sounded great plugged in. It's all a matter of the quality of the woods and construction.

All the 35" 5-strings I've tried, didn't feel floppy unplugged.

Once again, it's a matter of quality. B-strings on Zon and Ken Smith basses (34" with few exceptions) sound great, due to the stiffnes of the graphite necks on the Zons, and the laminations on the Smith.

When you try the basses plugged in, you'll notice the difference.

 

[derelicte]

a lot of the responses here should help you decide, OP
I was also in the market for a 5er a while back and decided on the Schecter studio5 mainly for its B-string. it's a 35" scale bass with a solid feel and the other strings felt pretty good too. My only gripe was the spacing on the neck end was kinda a stretch, but as someone had mentioned earlier, it just requires a few scale exercises and you're good to go.

Aside from that, I was also looking at the SR5 (which has a nice feel and a killer neck), and a warwick fortress5.

I'm pretty happy with my schecter, but since it's kinda heavy i opted for a lighter one.

 

[dakpluto]

I agree with some of the posts in that the actual string choice can have a difference on it also.

I've had the best luck with D'Addario half rounds for my 5 stringer.

 

[ROON]

Thats entirely possible. Do you have a heavy pick attack? What kind of action do you have set up on your 4 string bass?

Very light pick attack, I use 0.60mm Dunlop Nylon picks. I don't really like digging in, plus having such a thin pick makes it very easy to play fast down/up strokes. On my SR4, I have the action fairly low. One of the first things I did when I got it was adjust the truss rod so the action was lower. Even mediumish height action annoys me!

Have you considered not getting a 5 string. Why don't you experiment stinging your 4 sting B,E,A,D. This will give you some time to get used to the feel of a B string. You may decide after a while that you don't like it. You may want to look into a heavier gauge E string and play in drop D. That is my preference. When playing metal you really want to hold down the "bottom" end so I dought you'll miss that G string a whole lot if you string B to D. An added bonus is that buying 4 strings is cheaper than buying 5.

Hi bassdaddy, I will be buying a 5er some day but this was more of a test run than deciding what I was going to get. I actually just went to the store to get some new strings and ended up playing some 5ers for around 20 minutes. I do like the idea of having 5 strings. Next time I go I'll take my tuner and tune it all up nicely so I KNOW it's playing how it should.

 

[niftydog]

I tried every 5er I could get my hands on, for two whole years, and only one did it for me, a custom built Australian Gecko 35". I tried all the ones you listed in that bunch, and frankly the one that disappointed me the most was the Stingray. I love my Stingray 4, but the B on the 5 just let the whole team down.

You should try a neck-through 35" Thumb before you release that GAS!!!

The extended part of the fretboard which continues and overlaps the body was about 5 to 7mm off the body wood.

Sounds normal to me, and doesn't affect how it plays, so... I don't get why it put you off a Thumb.

 

[Arx]

Ah, the voice of reason. Although I'm wondering if the mass of the neck itself wouldn't come into play enough to make a perceivable difference? The initial plucking force is transmitted, and partly absorbed, to/by it after all.

well, the mass of the neck, probably not. It may change the sustain and tone somewhat, but I don't see how it would really have any effect on the tension. The stiffness may make some difference, but I doubt it's perceptible.

I could be wrong on that, but I still expect it's either other setup differences making it seem tighter, or it's a heavier string actually making it a bit tighter. The string guage of course, is really just increased to increase the mass. If you make a heavier string in the same gauge, say by compressing the windings, it'll be similar in performance to a slightly larger gauge.

Not a huge difference for sure, but probably enough that you could try a 125 that's compression wound, and a 135 that's relatively loosely wound, and they'll both perform like an average 130.

Enough to throw off people's comparisons I think.

-Nick

 

[Double Agent]

Dude.....you seriously need to play a Dingwall.

Don't know what their availability is down under, but they are the best solution I've found for floppy B. The next best choice, and one that might be easier to find, is a neck-through Spector.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I assume these basses were hanging in a local store, correct? If so, I have a question for you:

What's the first and most frequent thing most bassists do when auditioning a fiver? Answer: bang on the B string to see if it's floppy. You've just demonstrated this.

Given the above, it makes sense that B strings will wear out faster than the others. It is also my experience that thicker strings wear out faster than thinner ones even when played evenly... in part because the bigger strings have thicker windings that are better at collecting dirt.

Bottom line: the only way to know about the quality of a B string is to audition the bass with fresh strings.

 

[mutedeity]

Yesterday I had my first good play of several five stringers. I tried these;

EBMM Stringray 5
Warwick Thumb BO
Warwick Corvette STD
Ibanez SR505
Yamaha RBX775

This was the first time I had actually had a good sit down and play some five string basses. My first impression was that B strings are incredibly floppy. The B's on the Warwick and the SR5 were flopping all over the shop and constantly hitting the fretboard making for some nasty fret noise. The Ibanez SR505 had a nice tight B IMO, but still floppier than I expected B strings to be. The Corvette was nice too, but the Yamaha probably had the nicest feel.

So are all B strings uber floppy or what? I play metal so I play pretty fast, but I play with very very soft picks that basically roll over the string, I like them because they cause minimal fret noise. But the B's on every bass were making noise.

I assume it's not a setup problem, because all of the bases are usually set up very nice, and they felt good in my hands. The only one that was set up bad was the Warwick Thumb. The extended part of the fretboard which continues and overlaps the body was about 5 to 7mm off the body wood. Completely killed my GAS for Thumbs, because it felt kinda flimsy and toyish. So I guess thats a good thing, that's the last of my expensive GAS gone... for now.

So yeah, are all B's that floppy? What basses have a really tight B, similar to the tension on a regular E?

Based on the basses you chose to try, it's no wonder you came to that conclusion. The tension on my Miruzzi's B string is fine. It's a shame almost that I tune EADGC. You should make your way into the Basspeople and try out some of the higher end 5-strings there.

 

[matty589]

I just tried a Thumb 5 NT with Wenge stringers and fb dated 1996. I swear this has the tightest B-string sound and feel, even with a taper-wound string (LaBella Slappers I think, and dead to boot!). I live above a bass shop, and there is a Fodera, loads of SR5's, a Dingwall, 3 F-basses, other, newer Warwicks, Laklands, Ibanezes(?), a Lull, Yamahas, Alembics and Sadowskys, and this bass wipes the floor with the lot. Seriously, the B has the clarity of an E- or A-string, even at the 12th fret+. Mind you, all that hardwood seems to create loads of low-end punch as I have found the same with other, older Thumb NT's. I even tried my mate's left-hand 1988 thumb upside-down tuned B-E-A-D (Jimmy Haslip style) once for a recording and the B was so tight, focused and growly he almost fell off his chair laughing! That might have been my playing though... The Thumb NT sound is very dense though, a lot of energy in the low mids, and wouldn't work so well for jazz or situations where you need a flat, open sound. I have a Yamaha BB615 (another fantastic bass, made in Taiwan to the specs of the old BB5000 series, which has a sweet, tight B, especially on the bridge PU - and it was $650!) for those times

 

[matty589]

I assume it's not a setup problem, because all of the bases are usually set up very nice, and they felt good in my hands. The only one that was set up bad was the Warwick Thumb. The extended part of the fretboard which continues and overlaps the body was about 5 to 7mm off the body wood. Completely killed my GAS for Thumbs, because it felt kinda flimsy and toyish. So I guess thats a good thing, that's the last of my expensive GAS gone... for now.
?

You are 100% right about this - I get to try a lot of Warwicks in the shop downstairs (see above) and most of them have horribly-shaped baseball bat necks and an anodyne, machine-made feel about them. Older (mid-90's and earlier) models were hand-made and are vastly superior. Thumb NT's with a wenge fb and neck stringers feel super-solid, if a little heavy (4.5-5Kg). I've played late 80's and early 90's streamers (4 and 5) and they feel solid too.

 

[RickenBoogie]

My only 5 string is a Gibson TBird Studio model. I can't compare it to any of the above mentioned basses, but the B string is pretty tight, as are the other 4 strings. Got a set of Roto's on it, with a .130 B string, sounds nice too. Just killing some time, thought I'd mention it.

 

[wazzel]

I have no floppy b sting issues on either my SR5 or my Heartfield DR5 and it is not even a 34"er (33.858" since it is a 860mm scale length). I would agree that they were tuned down.