Played and compared 5ers yesterday. (Question with rant)

[jcburn]

Ive tried heaps of fives over the years, most with 34" scales, some with 35. Most of the 34's did have crappy B's, but I found that the extra tension of the 35's helped the B but made all the other strings too tight for the way I play, plus for some reason the 35's ended up neck heavy. I play mostly metal too with a 1mm pick. The best bass I have found to comprimise is my current bass. US Fender Deluxe 5 Jazz from 2006. Get the alder one if you can (a little heavier tho), great active EQ, personally love the feel of the necks (9.5 radius), 18mm spacing and +1 to previous post - string through the body. Plus I use EB Power slinkies with a .130 B. Got my B action as low as my G(very low). Acoustically around the 5th to 8th fret its a little fretboard 'clanky', but it doesn't buzz and amped you just dont hear it. If anything it adds a little 'metallic' sound that I like in my tone. Mines got a maple board too that adds to the clarity of the lower notes.
My 2c!

 

[Arx]

This might help. *shrugs*

Different strings have different tensions.

A word of caution though: putting on a whole set of higher guage strings might change the pull on the neck, which will mess with your action of course. And if you put on just a thicker B-string, then you have the problem that you can't buy a standard set of strings... you'll have to buy a set AND a specific guage B.

5sg

I'm going to bring science into this discussion.

Different strings at a given pitch will only have different tensions if they're of a different weight per unit of length, or of a different length.

Subjectively, it can seem otherwise. A higher nut may give the impression of a higher tension, since it will take more pressure to fret a note, and slapping an open string is less likely to rattle. Same is true for higher action or more relief.

If you tune any two strings to the same pitch, their deflection under a given force will be set entirely by the string's mass(ignoring the negligible differences of string stiffness, etc.) Any gimmick which is supposed to give a "tighter B string" is pretty much BS.

The only gimmick which I've ever seen that I would expect to effect string tension in any way is to extend the length of non-vibrating string at the headstock/bridge, and this difference would be very small, and would actually be in the opposite direction that is often claimed. It would very slightly reduce the amount of force requred for a given deflection, making the string very slightly more floppy, but possibly improving intonation by an equally insignificant amount.

I think what it comes down to is, use fatter and more importantly heavier strings, increase your action, get a longer scale, or just turn up your amp and play a little lighter.

 

[ROON]

Sounds like either the basses had poor setup or you have poor technique. Warwicks and Stingray 5 strings are some of the best B strings out there. Granted, I do not play with a pick often. My old SR5 did fine picked.

My technique is fine, there was no flopping or noise on other strings at all. I was just surprised how much B's flop around. Like I said before all the basses were set up perfectly, except the Thumb BO. The Stingray's felt exactly like they do when coming straight from the factory. Different strokes for different folks I guess, glad you liked your old SR5, but I think they have a pretty average B.

All the basses you played have 34" scale necks, which has a lot to do with feel. Some people like 34" scale, some prefer a 35" scale neck for 5+ string basses. I'm one of those that prefer the longer scale necks (and will respectfully disagree with eastcoasteddie on this) because there IS a difference... the longer scales help with tighter tension on the low B's, making them less floppy.

With the exception of a Stingray 5, the only 34" scale 5-strings I would buy are the ones which you can string through the body. I have a Fender American Jazz V strung that way and it feels pretty good. Not as good my other 5- or 6-strings (all 35" scale), but better than a standard 34" scale bass.

Try a 35" scale bass and see if you notice a difference... I bet you'll like the B-string much better. Remember though... as with all other things bass, it's about what sounds/feels/works best TO YOU.

5sg

Hmmm thats interesting. I'll have to see if I can try out a 35". I would like to try out one of the AS P5's. Last time I tried a P the sound and feel didn't impress me too much, but those 5 string P's look sexy as hell. They are string through too.

 

[Figjam]

Thicker gauge strings. Tighten truss rod. You'll be fine. Never played a stingray5 with a bad B that was set up correctly. Never.

 

[Jjango]

Problem could be solved with higher gauge low B.

I'm going to state a somewhat unique preference here; knowing this, I'll don my flame-retardant suit and duck behind a wall...



What worked for me was going to a lighter gauge B string. I know that this made it more loose than before, but nothing that a slight change in action (higher) couldn't fix.

To me, the lighter-gauge B string made the string ring truer, sustain longer, play easier, sound richer (more overtones, perhaps?) and it made the B sound more like the other four strings. A super heavy B made the B string sound like it was on a different instrument.

I'm not saying that it's not a good idea to go to a heavier gauge string – it probably is the best idea for most – but for me, and my individual preference, just the opposite was true.

YMMV, etc, etc...

 

[ROON]

Interesting theory. My Ibanez came with really light guage strings, with mediumish action. Those strings were SUPER tight. I have had heavier guage strings that haven't felt anywhere near as tight.

 

[Rakie]

Whats already been said. FIrst off, those are 34" scale basses. 35's usually are more defined.

Second, (personally) im not impressed with any of the basses you mentioned. You could get a Lakland 5 string for cheaper then any one of those, except maybe the Ibanez, and it has a very nice B string.

Third, Get used to a B string. It takes a little bit of time.



I want a Dingwall

 

[Figjam]

Interesting theory. My Ibanez came with really light guage strings, with mediumish action. Those strings were SUPER tight. I have had heavier guage strings that haven't felt anywhere near as tight.

Its not really a theory. Its physics. I am not sure why your experience does not follow the same pattern. Perhaps what you think feels tighter is not in reality.

 

[guy n. cognito]

ALL of my 5 strings have been, and are, 34". None have been floppy. Most music store instruments aren't tuned properly, so that may contribute to the problem.

Your inexperience with the 5 string has probably led to your conclusion.

 

[Figjam]

i agree. The B strings were probably tuned flat.

 

[guy n. cognito]

i agree. The B strings were probably tuned flat.

At least a full step, in my experience. Most players never notice.

 

[Figjam]

Correct, especially if you did not play them plugged in.

 

[Arx]

I think more likely you just need to get used to the B. They're bound to be floppier than the other strings.

Doesn't mean they're "bad" just that your frame of reference, the E string is going to be tighter, and will need to move less than the B to get the same sound level out of it.

Regarding the string through thing. My understanding of the physics is that it's nonsense.. As I said in my previous post, it would likely make the string insignificantly looser, and make the intonation insignificantly better.

The playing while not plugged in thing is a major factor of course. Even if you were plugged in, but playing quieter than you normally do, you're probably subconsiously hitting the strings harder to compensate.



-Nick

 

[DrGroovenstein]

My technique is fine, there was no flopping or noise on other strings at all. I was just surprised how much B's flop around. Like I said before all the basses were set up perfectly, except the Thumb BO. The Stingray's felt exactly like they do when coming straight from the factory. Different strokes for different folks I guess, glad you liked your old SR5, but I think they have a pretty average B.

Average because you've played 5 5-string basses total?? Did you bother to play the basses fingerstyle at all? Just curious if that would change your impression at all.

 

[DrGroovenstein]

ALL of my 5 strings have been, and are, 34". None have been floppy. Most music store instruments aren't tuned properly, so that may contribute to the problem.

Your inexperience with the 5 string has probably led to your conclusion.

+1. I pretty much will only buy 34" scale 5 strings now. No need for 35" scale, all of the 34" scale basses I have owned have had great B strings. Everything from my sub $200 OLP to my >$3k Sadowsky and Ken Smith. Though, I will concede that strings do play their part in this. For example, if you were to play the same bass with DR lowriders and DR hibeams, you would immediately notice one had a more loose feel than the other.

 

[Earwigger]

They needed properly set up, which almost never happens before a bass is hung on the wall of a store.

A bad B string on a Stingray 5? Please . . . .

I see this often actually. Stingray 5s have consistently dissapointed me with their floppy Bs.

SR505/506 basses have AWESOME B strings. I couldn't tell you what makes them so, but they are great. Stingrays, not so much. Fenders are usually worse then Stingrays. But Ibanez, they almost always have a usable B string.

 

[Thunderitter]

In my experience most basses in place like GC are always at least a tone (or more) flat. That might explain your floppiness - said the actress to the bishop!

 

[spade2you]

One possible important thing to note is that ears and technique will vary. I don't have a heavy handed technique, but I like being able to hit the strings with a reasonable amount of force without the low B farting out and having very low action. Perhaps my basses are overkill, but nobody has ever accused me of my low B being too tight. In fact, my guitarist noted that I was the first guy he has ever dealt with who had a very strong and consistent low B.

 

[ROON]

Average because you've played 5 5-string basses total?? Did you bother to play the basses fingerstyle at all? Just curious if that would change your impression at all.

I've played 5 fivers, that's enough to form an opinion. And out of all the ones I tried the SR5 was my least favourite. I'm entitled to my opinion. I did play some of them fingerstyle, which was better, but that's most likely because I play fingerstyle just behind or in the middle of the bridge pup, and I play pick style in front of the bridge pup or in the middle of the two.

I'm going with the people who are saying that it was most likely tuned wrong. I've tuned BEAD with my SR4 and a 110 E (in this case B) string and had better tension than some of the ones I played.

 

[DrGroovenstein]

I've played 5 fivers, that's enough to form an opinion. And out of all the ones I tried the SR5 was my least favourite. I'm entitled to my opinion. I did play some of them fingerstyle, which was better, but that's most likely because I play fingerstyle just behind or in the middle of the bridge pup, and I play pick style in front of the bridge pup or in the middle of the two.

I'm going with the people who are saying that it was most likely tuned wrong. I've tuned BEAD with my SR4 and a 110 E (in this case B) string and had better tension than some of the ones I played.

Thats entirely possible. Do you have a heavy pick attack? What kind of action do you have set up on your 4 string bass?