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Playing 1/2 step down - will I need heavier strings?
- Thread starter Sparkdog
- Start date
First: Yeah, if the songs are played in the original key then detuning is ********.
Second: We play 1/2 step down to accommodate the singer. It isn't that the songs are out of his range in normal tuning, it's just easier on him and sounds better this way.
Plus we play a ****load of Alice in Chains.
If the guitar players are downtuning a half step. that's really only one note that the bass player needs, an Eb. You could just downtune that one string...
- Jun 3, 2009
- 3,330
- 398
- Disclosures
- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
Many, many, many famous bands play 1/2 step down tuned, but still use the standard chord shapes. It is just easier to sing, a little easier to play longer, and the floppy in the guitar strings gives the guitar more character.
As for the bass, I don't have a problem and I play like this a lot. And I don't worry about permanent set ups with the downtuning, as 1/2 step is not soooooo different that it throws your whole life out of whack.
Enjoy the audition.
As for the bass, I don't have a problem and I play like this a lot. And I don't worry about permanent set ups with the downtuning, as 1/2 step is not soooooo different that it throws your whole life out of whack.
Enjoy the audition.
Thanks Tom, that's exactly what I thought.
Not sure what planet some of the folks here are gigging on, or I may have not worded it clearly, but this group tunes down 1/2 step...the E string becomes Eb...and then they play the songs with the same chord structures as the records. If the song is in A they play an A major chord...yeah, it's actually A flat they're playing, but it doesn't matter what you call it at that point!
It's all good in the hood
Thanks Tom, that's exactly what I thought.
Not sure what planet some of the folks here are gigging on, or I may have not worded it clearly, but this group tunes down 1/2 step...the E string becomes Eb...and then they play the songs with the same chord structures as the records. If the song is in A they play an A major chord...yeah, it's actually A flat they're playing, but it doesn't matter what you call it at that point!
It's all good in the hood
You said they detune and then play in the original key. If they play in the original key then everything would be moved up a fret.
What you are now describing is exactly how my band plays. Everything is 1/2 step down. Same chord positions etc..
I use the same strings for standard or 1/2 step flat, but like I said, you may need to adjust the truss rod if you plan on keeping the bass tuned that way. I had to with my 4001.
I recently set my 4003 to Drop D with DR LoRider nickle rounds, and got a bit too much clank and fret noise. I picked up a D'Adario XL 110, raised the bridge on that side a hair, and it's not too bad. If I really dig in, I still get a bit of clank, etc. I like low action, so my only choice to really clean it up would be a 115.
This half step detune was used by a good many rock and blues trio.s mostly because it made the guitar sound a bit fuller or beefier. The vocalist thing might be part of the reason but I had always heard that it made the guitar sound bigger when chording and such. String tension could be another possibility as you could go to a heavier gauge and detune the tension away a bit.
Yeah, I can see how the action/truss might need to be tweaked at 1/2 step down. I play with lots of folks and these guys are the only ones (so far anyway) that have requested this.
I'm bringing 2 basses to the audition: Fender Am Std Jazz with flats (that's my main bass) and a Lakland DJ4 with rounds. Every Am Std Fender I've owned has had a rock solid neck, I guess it's due to the graphite rods they put in them, and they just NEVER move once I set them up. My guess is that Jazz won't care one bit about downtuning a little bit.
Audition is Thursday, I'll know a whole lot more about this subject on Friday
I'm bringing 2 basses to the audition: Fender Am Std Jazz with flats (that's my main bass) and a Lakland DJ4 with rounds. Every Am Std Fender I've owned has had a rock solid neck, I guess it's due to the graphite rods they put in them, and they just NEVER move once I set them up. My guess is that Jazz won't care one bit about downtuning a little bit.
Audition is Thursday, I'll know a whole lot more about this subject on Friday
Personally I hate downtuning, even by half a step. It takes all the life out of the tone and some songs just sound bizarre played out of the original key. Maybe most people can't tell if a song is not played in the original key, but I've always been able to. Drives me nuts. Also makes the band sound draggy, like they're playing through molasses.
Personally, I have never changed strings for detuning. I tend to play with a light touch, so the slightly lower string tension doesn't cause any problem for me. Sometimes when I detune a whole step (2 frets) or more, there is a little extra fret buzz, but it doesn't come through the amp.
I just started with a band last week who tunes a half step down. I tuned my jazz down and I had lots of buzz and my g string was dead the first 5 frets. I just dropped it off to get set up so everything is happy. I tuned my series 10 down with no problems so I can practice this week.
I've been doing the 1/2 step down for years now. I really got to like the looser feel. I now set my basses up for downtuning, adjusting the truss rod a bit, and then the saddles.
I don't change back to play with standard tuners, I just mentally change the key. Standard tuners playing in E, I'm in F. It's a little trickier if you have to read standard notation and compensate for the downtuning, but if you are a good reader (I'm not) you'll get it quickly.
Some blues guitarists like to use a heavier string, but tuned down a 1/2 step, and like so many above have said, it can be easier on the singer.
Usually the setup change is minimal, like switching to different strings. You might need to loosen the truss rod a bit, intonation change is tiny and not worth messing with unless you are going to make the change permanent.
I don't change back to play with standard tuners, I just mentally change the key. Standard tuners playing in E, I'm in F. It's a little trickier if you have to read standard notation and compensate for the downtuning, but if you are a good reader (I'm not) you'll get it quickly.
Some blues guitarists like to use a heavier string, but tuned down a 1/2 step, and like so many above have said, it can be easier on the singer.
Usually the setup change is minimal, like switching to different strings. You might need to loosen the truss rod a bit, intonation change is tiny and not worth messing with unless you are going to make the change permanent.
Well, think about it. It is not a guitar. There is a lot of tension on those strings and when you loosen all of them, your neck is sure to flatten out a bit. If you can detune ( and I don't mean just for a minute or for one song, but actually keep it tuned that way) and your neck doesn't need to be adjusted, you probably had too much relief in the neck in the first place.
Why not just leave the strings alone and just play all the songs half a step lower by adjusting where you place your hand. That would seem to be the easiest solution to me. No new strings, no new action setup, just brush up on your theory so you know the chords for the lowered keys and you'll be good to go. Plus it'll make you a better bassist in the long run
xxjazzbassist said:
Exactly - I can see why the guitarists do it, as they use chord fingering, but for bass it makes almost no sense. Like playing with a capo.
