Playing for free as "good marketing"?

[JW56789]

The ONLY way I'd consider it was if my mom owned the joint. Otherwise . . . . No.

SYSCO is not going to front them food, Budweiser is not going to front them some kegs, and The Crown Royal delivery is COD . . . . . just like the band.

 

[CenTexThumper]

It sets a dangerous precedent that unscrupulous club owners (and many are) will try to take advantage of. The clubs, bars and honkytonks will be busy and raking in the $. We need to be taking advantage of them.

 

[jdh3000]

If you start playing for free, then the club owners begin to think that's what you are worth.

It may prove difficult to ever get back to making anything.

 

[40Hz]

[

So, just had a chat conversation with the guys in one of my bands, and once bars reopen they were all talking like we should consider playing for free (actually food and drink, but i don't count that as payment) for the rest of the year to help "give back" to the local bars as they they try to recover from whats going on in the world.

They think it's "good marketing" on our part, shows "we care", and a good way to differentiate ourselves from the other bands as once things reopen, there will be less places to play.

It will certainly differentiate you from the other bands. But not in a good way. It’ll perpetually tag you as amateurs and the cheapest guys in the room to “hire” with any of your prospective clients. And I think it’s wishful thinking hoping the courtesy will be generally reciprocated.

In my old company we’d often get asked by small business owners (who are often the most conniving tightwads you’ll ever meet) to give a discount in return for a promise of future business. I always replied we couldn’t offer a discount on a promise. But depending on the volume, frequency, and duration, I would definitely consider discounting on future work - should it actually come to pass.

FWIW I strongly suspect that many of the people who keep talking about “when things finally get back to normal” are in for a surprise. I truly believe the Covid-19 virus response debacle will join the ranks of 9-11, the Columbine school shootings, Hurricane Gloria and similar societal traumas as a history altering moment. And any “normal” we ultimately return to will be a “new normal” rather than a return to the way things once were. There’s been a huge erosion of public confidence due to the way this situation was handled. And that is going to have repercussions for many years to come on how we work and live.

I’ve heard the Corona outbreak equated with being at war. If so, it may be worthwhile recalling the words of US Senator Hiram Warren Johnson, who in 1918 said:

“The first casualty when war comes is truth.”​

and S.L. Buckly who reminds us:

“The first casualty of war is innocence. Don’t be so eager to find this out. I assure you…war is ugly.”
​

I think we’ve seen enough of the truth in both observations to realize it’s not worth debating which casualty - the truth or innocence - is the actual first.

 

[QweziRider]

They think it's "good marketing" on our part, shows "we care", and a good way to differentiate ourselves from the other bands as once things reopen, there will be less places to play.

No. Because once you do, once they know you'll do it, they'll always want it. Until they can afford bands, they can open without it.

 

[CenTexThumper]

[


It will certainly differentiate you from the other bands. But not in a good way. It’ll perpetually tag you as amateurs and the cheapest guys in the room to “hire” with any of your prospective clients. And I think it’s wishful thinking hoping the courtesy will be generally reciprocated.

In my old company we’d often get asked by small business owners (who are often the most conniving tightwads you’ll ever meet) to give a discount in return for a promise of future business. I always replied we couldn’t offer a discount on a promise. But depending on the volume, frequency, and duration, I would definitely consider discounting on future work - should it actually come to pass.

FWIW I strongly suspect that many of the people who keep talking about “when things finally get back to normal” are in for a surprise. I truly believe the Corona-19 virus response debacle will join the ranks of 9-11, the Columbine school shootings, Hurricane Gloria and similar societal traumas as a history altering moment. And any “normal” we ultimately ureturn to will be a “new normal” rather than a return to the way things once were. There’s been a huge erosion of public confidence due to the way this situation was handled. And that is going to have repercussions for many years to come on how we work and live.

I’ve heard the Corona outbreak equated with being at war. If so, it may be worthwhile recalling the words of US Senator Hiram Warren Johnson, who in 1918 said:

“The first casualty when war comes is truth.”​

and S.L. Buckly who reminds us:

“The first casualty of war is innocence. Don’t be so eager to find this out. I assure you…war is ugly.”
​

I think we’ve seen enough of the truth in both observations to realize it’s not worth debating which casualty - the truth or innocence - is the actual first.

Very eloquently stated. Less eloquent yet accurate, the buzzards will be circling when this is done. I am not carrion.

 

[BAG]

The owner is a dear friend of mine - great pianist in his own right - and he's sponsored live music for over 20 years. (I say "sponsored" because there were many nights he was clearly losing money on the band payout.

I think many musicians would be surprised how many bars that put on live music are like your friend's place. I've been managing pubs and clubs since the late 90's and can tell you that most nights that I've put on live music I would have made more profit (but less revenue) to simply have no music, less customers and less staff.

I wouldn't say most, but many places that have live music do it because the owner or manager like live music, not because they think it will make them more money.

 

[40Hz]

I think many musicians would be surprised how many bars that put on live music are like your friend's place.

I think many musicians in the USA would know from experience that a place like the OP cited is more the exception rather than the rule here.

 

[two fingers]

Separate business from personal.

If I were to agree to play for free to help a club get back on its feet, it would be personal. It would be a gift from me to a friend. (There are two I would do it for. They have hired my bands in good times and bad for more than two decades.) And all band members would have to be onboard with the gift. No hard feelings if one or more members don't go for it.

It would not be a good business decision to play for free for the rest of the year, especially for club owners you don't know personally. You are not their friends. So they are not yours. They are in business for one reason... to turn a profit. You would be doing a disservice to the entire market. Other bands would suffer. Your band would too in the long run. Don't go down that road.

If they are not your friends, business as usual.

If a given club owner is a personal friend of one or more band members, talk it out and go from there. Keep it hush hush. You don't want word getting out that anybody is playing for free. Keep it personal between you guys and your friend the club owner.

Gifts are personal. Don't give a gift unless you have personal feelings about it.

 

[elgranluis]

No

 

[packhowitzer]

It's fine if you want to play for free, but the venue needs to pay you for travel, load in, set up, sound check, and load out.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Context: This is a bar band, and we are lucky, as a 4 piece, to get $80-$100 each when we play a gig. We play 12-15 times per year on average. I like the guys in the band, and we get along well together. The music is not my favorite, but is generally kind of fun to play depending on the crowd.

So, I have 2 of the "music, hang, or money" when evaluating my situation in a band although we make very little $$ one could argue I only have the hang...

So, just had a chat conversation with the guys in one of my bands, and once bars reopen they were all talking like we should consider playing for free (actually food and drink, but i don't count that as payment) for the rest of the year to help "give back" to the local bars as they they try to recover from whats going on in the world.

They think it's "good marketing" on our part, shows "we care", and a good way to differentiate ourselves from the other bands as once things reopen, there will be less places to play.

It just doesn't sit well with me, and I declined. While we don't make much money, it's more the principle.

I also told them they had my blessing to play for free with a sub if they desire to do so.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this? (sorry if this is a repeat thread)

I like to play music. If we're booking a set, I expect payment. If someone wants me play, and I can, I do. Its just the way it is. Playing for free, is just like having practice. Except it feels a lot better to have practice at a place full of people enjoying you play. Free sets are never long. And, usually you at least get free food and/or drinks. Plus, if you do good, they usually ask you back. Which, you could say okay, or discuss payments arrangements and schedules.

 

[cmcbass]

I will play for free if it's a benefit and the money goes to a cause I support. Otherwise cash in hand or I'm not interested. When things go back to "normal" eventually I won't change my opinion.

 

[james condino]

You do realize that every bar owner in town gets together for business lunches with all of the other bar owners and they openly discuss what they pay your band, right? Play for free once and you just got the "free band" for life stamp on your forehead....

 

[juggahnaught]

The overarching idea is good, but money shouldn't be part of the equation.

Find a different value-add/goodwill method for your band. Either go above and beyond for marketing, bring out more patrons, or do some type of long-lived event or something, like playing a different venue per week for post corona support ("insert band name here: Pub Crawl"), but still get paid. Or at least get a contract for future payment on a net 30 plan.

Basically, don't subtract money, just add more value.

 

[David McIntire]

Context: This is a bar band, and we are lucky, as a 4 piece, to get $80-$100 each when we play a gig. We play 12-15 times per year on average. I like the guys in the band, and we get along well together. The music is not my favorite, but is generally kind of fun to play depending on the crowd.

So, I have 2 of the "music, hang, or money" when evaluating my situation in a band although we make very little $$ one could argue I only have the hang...

So, just had a chat conversation with the guys in one of my bands, and once bars reopen they were all talking like we should consider playing for free (actually food and drink, but i don't count that as payment) for the rest of the year to help "give back" to the local bars as they they try to recover from whats going on in the world.

They think it's "good marketing" on our part, shows "we care", and a good way to differentiate ourselves from the other bands as once things reopen, there will be less places to play.

It just doesn't sit well with me, and I declined. While we don't make much money, it's more the principle.

I also told them they had my blessing to play for free with a sub if they desire to do so.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this? (sorry if this is a repeat thread)

Give back? To the venues that have kept wages from back in the 80s, yet drink prices have risen by 300% or more? Sorry. I get $150 a night. Minimum. And my same rules apply. Give me a group of gigs, I'll give you a group rate on my bands' fees. If, in the past, you've given me a lotta gigs over the years? I will take consideration. But no way am I gonna take gigs for less than my minimum. Then, just like always, when bands undervalue themselves, venues think that will become standard. And wages decrease, while the club still benefits. Not good for a scene or musicians. Are clubs gonna reduce prices to give back to their communities? I bet not. We are ALL goin thru this. All needs to stay same.

 

[David McIntire]

I like to play music. If we're booking a set, I expect payment. If someone wants me play, and I can, I do. Its just the way it is. Playing for free, is just like having practice. Except it feels a lot better to have practice at a place full of people enjoying you play. Free sets are never long. And, usually you at least get free food and/or drinks. Plus, if you do good, they usually ask you back. Which, you could say okay, or discuss payments arrangements and schedules.

Just like rehearsals. Except? I gotta move my gear, set up, tear down, and set it back up at my rehearsal space. I play for free. I get paid for the "production". I.E.? Movin my stuff.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Just like rehearsals. Except? I gotta move my gear, set up, tear down, and set it back up at my rehearsal space. I play for free. I get paid for the "production". I.E.? Movin my stuff.

He, I dont leave my stuff anywhere anyway. So, I tear down, move my stuff, set up, tear down, move my stuff, and set up again no matter where I play. But, I got a portaflex on wheels. It's not hard, or long.

Not what she said

 

[Blueinred]

Certain known hotspots or personal fave venues might be worth a negotiable discount, for ONE gig, if they are willing to allow your band to announce and then "pass the hat". Tell the crowd what the deal is for that night and ask them to pony up a buck or three (assuming no cover charge at the door). Especially if there is still a crowd size/distancing order still happening. I could go for that on the "safe" restart we are all so hoping for.

 

[TheDirtyLowDown]

I love to play, I want to play, and I sometimes do it for free -- for charity gigs, and for friends' parties.

But that bar/club/venue wouldn't expect their chefs, servers, bouncers, bartenders, or even the folks bussing the tables or washing the dishes or parking the cars to work for free. Why would I be any different? I show up for work, ready to go, and I give it my all for hours on end. I'm good at my job too. And that 3 letter word is the difference -- it's a job.