Playing for free as "good marketing"?

[David McIntire]

He, I dont leave my stuff anywhere anyway. So, I tear down, move my stuff, set up, tear down, move my stuff, and set up again no matter where I play. But, I got a portaflex on wheels. It's not hard, or long.

Not what she said

I have a different situation. And, I carry, wire, run, set up, tear down, move, my bands' (plural) P.A.

I was also bein partly smart ass with the old saying... "I play for free, I get paid to move all this stuff". I have multiple rigs. Still? You have to set up P.A. No "House" systems in my area. Just funnin, brutha. With a bit o'Truth.

 

[40Hz]

I like to play music. If we're booking a set, I expect payment. If someone wants me play, and I can, I do. Its just the way it is. Playing for free, is just like having practice. Except it feels a lot better to have practice at a place full of people enjoying you play. Free sets are never long. And, usually you at least get free food and/or drinks.

So to summarize, you don't take your efforts seriously, treat gigging professionally…and you're willing to work for food.

Plus, if you do good, they usually ask you back. Which, you could say okay, or discuss payments arrangements and schedules.

"Doing good" won't necessarily (let alone "usually") get you a callback.

And if you played for free before, and see it as no different than practice, why should the venue suddenly be interested in discussing anything like payments with you? Best you can expect is the same deal as before: throw the dog a bone.

 

[Clark W]

I can see playing your first gig back for free in a venue or venues that have been good to you in the past. But other than that, nope.

 

[fhm555]

If you are in a hobby band and won't play out unless you get paid, how much do you charge for a round of golf or a day on the lake fishing?

 

[Leo Thunder]

Kids pay to play. Adults get paid for doing things others want.

 

[6stringtheorist]

Context: This is a bar band, and we are lucky, as a 4 piece, to get $80-$100 each when we play a gig. We play 12-15 times per year on average. I like the guys in the band, and we get along well together. The music is not my favorite, but is generally kind of fun to play depending on the crowd.

So, I have 2 of the "music, hang, or money" when evaluating my situation in a band although we make very little $$ one could argue I only have the hang...

So, just had a chat conversation with the guys in one of my bands, and once bars reopen they were all talking like we should consider playing for free (actually food and drink, but i don't count that as payment) for the rest of the year to help "give back" to the local bars as they they try to recover from whats going on in the world.

They think it's "good marketing" on our part, shows "we care", and a good way to differentiate ourselves from the other bands as once things reopen, there will be less places to play.

It just doesn't sit well with me, and I declined. While we don't make much money, it's more the principle.

I also told them they had my blessing to play for free with a sub if they desire to do so.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this? (sorry if this is a repeat thread)

You never play for free if there is any other choice your band will be lucky to get a free beer when things open up again if a bar owner knows you will play for free that is all you guys will ever get trust me on this one!

 

[6stringtheorist]

It really depends on the situation, both your's and the bar's. I can think of scenarios where it makes sense and scenarios where it doesn't. Of course, if you do it for free, it will be difficult to get them to pay later on. You know the relationship you have with the bars. There are bars that I would help out and bars that I would not.

If a bar owner knows you will play for free that is all your band is ever gonna get you worked hard to 'get good' I assume and that means you have worth you never play for free if there any other choice!

 

[6stringtheorist]

I agree, in a few weeks so much has changed. People are having their rent forgiven for a while. I just leased a new copier for my office and got three months of the lease chopped.

I'm like a few folks here. Last month I would have said "no friggen" way. Now I don't know. I guess I wouldn't want to, but if the guys wanted to do a "free one" I'd go along.

If you have a personal relationship with the bar owner you could offer to play a gig 'for the door' and charge folks $5 or $10 bucks the band keeps that money the club gets free entertainment and your friends will buy drinks its a win-win for everybody!

 

[6stringtheorist]

Absolutely not. Bars are not charitable organizations and will be charging for food and drinks. My take is that if anyone gets paid everyone gets paid.

If a club knows you will play for free because yer all being 'nice guys' and want to help out that is all your guys will ever get its all about 'profit' at the end of the day for a bar owner.

 

[cnltb]

Context: This is a bar band, and we are lucky, as a 4 piece, to get $80-$100 each when we play a gig. We play 12-15 times per year on average. I like the guys in the band, and we get along well together. The music is not my favorite, but is generally kind of fun to play depending on the crowd.

So, I have 2 of the "music, hang, or money" when evaluating my situation in a band although we make very little $$ one could argue I only have the hang...

So, just had a chat conversation with the guys in one of my bands, and once bars reopen they were all talking like we should consider playing for free (actually food and drink, but i don't count that as payment) for the rest of the year to help "give back" to the local bars as they they try to recover from whats going on in the world.

They think it's "good marketing" on our part, shows "we care", and a good way to differentiate ourselves from the other bands as once things reopen, there will be less places to play.

It just doesn't sit well with me, and I declined. While we don't make much money, it's more the principle.

I also told them they had my blessing to play for free with a sub if they desire to do so.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this? (sorry if this is a repeat thread)

It's a 'No.' from me.
I think you handled this rather well.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

So to summarize, you don't take your efforts seriously, treat gigging professionally…and you're willing to work for food.

[quite]Plus, if you do good, they usually ask you back. Which, you could say okay, or discuss payments arrangements and schedules.

For you.

To each his own. I play for free everytime I pick the thing up don't I? All in all, I get calls. Some good, some alright, but it's almost always a good time. Music dont pay bills anyway. If it did, we wouldn't have time to be on this site. We'd be working. Going somewhere else, writing, recording, and being told what to do to keep them paid...always.

Plus, I know a #&$% ton of people. Before this virus, I always kept busy. After the lockdown, I'll be busy again.

 

[AlexBassMP]

There's a busy metal scene in my city and my tribute band always get calls. We know that some of the gigs are organized for the love of music and promoters try to pay us as much they can without losing money. Maybe after this Covid situation we won't get paid as much as we usually are but I'm pretty sure that nobody will ask us to play for free in thier gigs/festivals...And if somebody asks, we'll se how we deal with the situation.

A bar asking for free musicians is another situation.. themain purpose of the bar is to make money...The owner dosn't ask for free drinks and foods to the suppliers..they don't pay in exposure to the staff. It can be seen as a supplier-customer rellationship. So playing for free in a bar is a big NO for me.

 

[SgtHulka]

Don't sell yourself short. Playing for marketing is meaningless and it will never get you anywhere. If you want to play just because you love it that's one thing but don't pretend that playing for free is going to get you somewhere.

 

[el murdoque]

I've just negotiated a deal with a local joint. One that has a 'good' owner. He's paying his staff over the minimum right now so they can make ends meet - and he's not rich, so this cuts into his budget on no small scale.
Our usual deal is we get Sum X + 75% of the door. The first post-Covid19-gig we will be getting 100% door and tell people to pay whatever they want. We'll have the door staffed and usually it's around ten bucks in that place, but for this gig we'll do a 'pay what you think' experiment.
None in the band live off music and we don't really desperately need the money.
I'd do this to one or two places that I hold dear, but the next gigs would be back to normal.

 

[whero]

OK, I've edited some of the OP comments for brevity, so I hope I haven't misrepresented anything, but...

... the guys in one of my bands ... were all talking like we should consider playing for free ...

I generally wouldn't agree to free gigs, unless the bar owner is family/a true friend, and you're doing them a personal favour. But looking around where I live, some small businesses including cafes, restaurants and bars are not going to be able to re-open after our lockdown is over. If there are bars that have genuinely been supportive of the live music scene, I'd be prepared to help them out to ensure there are still some venues to play in when we get back to some sort of normality. But I'd suggest negotiating. Something like (and I'm just making stuff up here - you have to do what feels right for you and your band mates): If you book us for five gigs, one every second week, we'll give you a XX% discount on our rate, on the understanding that after those five gigs we're back to our normal rate. But no free gigs...

... for the rest of the year ...

...and definitely not until the end of the year. I don't know when bars where you live are going to reopen, but there are 36 Friday nights and 36 Saturday nights between now and the end of the year. That's a lot of (your) free time.

... to help "give back" to the local bars ...

To "give back", they must have given you something first. What is that? You being paid to play there is not giving you anything; it's paying someone to provide a service, just like they would to their chef, bartenders, or if they had to call a plumber.

... and a good way to differentiate ourselves from the other bands ...

Oh, you'll differentiate yourself alright. Your point of difference will be that you consider yourself amateurs. You're happy to rehearse, schlep gear in, set up, play, break down, and schlep gear out, and do it all for nothing.

 

[TomB]

My bands don't play at venues for free, so that's the simplest answer.

Beyond that, my real concern is what the new normal will look like, at least until people feel safe again. Do you sing through a mask? If tables are 6 apart, do you only sit with people you know are virus-free? Dancing? Are you 6 feet apart or only slow-dance with the person you sleep with? How many stages allow you distance from your mates?

Even venues that focus on live music have a lot to work through before "hiring" again. And restaurants that feature occasional music have a whole lot of issues to resolve with food delivery and prep prior to even adding music back into the mix. So money may not be the prime consideration.

Our state's chief medical officer said outright that concerts, festivals, like sporting events, may be a long way off. "Normal" returns once we have widespread immunization, I'm told.

I'm not planning on playing for free, but I do wonder how much I'll be playing out and how soon. Might as well keep working on studio/streaming approaches and see if we can figure out how to make those pay something.

 

[mcnach]

Context: This is a bar band, and we are lucky, as a 4 piece, to get $80-$100 each when we play a gig. We play 12-15 times per year on average. I like the guys in the band, and we get along well together. The music is not my favorite, but is generally kind of fun to play depending on the crowd.

So, I have 2 of the "music, hang, or money" when evaluating my situation in a band although we make very little $$ one could argue I only have the hang...

So, just had a chat conversation with the guys in one of my bands, and once bars reopen they were all talking like we should consider playing for free (actually food and drink, but i don't count that as payment) for the rest of the year to help "give back" to the local bars as they they try to recover from whats going on in the world.

They think it's "good marketing" on our part, shows "we care", and a good way to differentiate ourselves from the other bands as once things reopen, there will be less places to play.

It just doesn't sit well with me, and I declined. While we don't make much money, it's more the principle.

I also told them they had my blessing to play for free with a sub if they desire to do so.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this? (sorry if this is a repeat thread)

It's a tricky one.
In general, we don't do free gigs. However, there are a couple of local venues that have helped my main band a lot. We play originals, it's a ska/reggae/funk band, and it's difficult to get out there and being booked when nobody knows you. I was regularly playing at this venue with a couple other bands, and I approached them to book my originals band. They do open mic sessions on MOndays, band showcases on Tuesdays, etc... all these for no or little pay, and little slots. Thursdays and Sundays are better, but I wanted the FRiday and Saturday slots: the venue always gets busy because it's known for having good live music, and the pay is decent. I convinced them to give us a shot.
"Do you have enough material to play at least a couple of hours?"
I said "of course".
UNtrue... we had about 45 minutes ready, because all we managed to get were 30-45min slots. But we had TONS of material in various stages of development. The guy gave me a Thursday slot to see how things went. We went to the studio and finished about 90 minutes worth of material in 3 weeks. Not final versions, but giggable.
We did the gig, it went down very well. We got Friday/Saturday slots from then on, regularly. The bar staff loved us and they would play our music (we had just finished a demo). They would write up nice things about us in their website. We got a LOT of people interested in us from seeing us there. Then the second venue (owned by the same people) opened and we played at their official opening and got regular slots there too. Our 'popularity' grew really fast thanks to being seen there, and we started getting our first festival offers on the strength of our shows, mostly there. In 2-3 years we no longer seeked gigs, they came to us, and we had a great time.

We don't play there as often anymore (we get better paid gigs elsewhere, and get busy, so we still play these venues but we give priority to the others).

We have decided that once they open we will either slash our fee or remove it entirely, for some time, on these two venues. They did us a lot of good. If you have ever played originals, you'll know how much harder it is to get out there compared to playing covers. They give opportunities to other local bands too. We think it's only fair -if we can afford it- to give a little back. It's not 'for show', it's because we genuinely like them and what they do for the local music scene.
Fortunately for us, we all have day jobs (more or less, some are students but they have some income from scholarships), so we don't rely on the income from music to pay bills. We use the money for extras, to pay for music equipment, studio time, other fun activities we individually choose (we invest 50% back in the band and divide the rest among us, that way when we need to spend money for band stuff, it comes from our 'bank' and we don't have to put our hands in our pockets).
I'm in another band that contains at least 3 people (out of 8) whose income comes solely from music: gigs, teaching, etc... so the 'no fee' situation just cannot be done with them.

In short: when we can afford it, we intend to reduce our fees for venues that have been good to us and the general live music scene.

I think a lot of people are going to suffer financially to some extent, and it makes sense to accept times will be hard for everyone and try to help in any way we can. If it means playing for free on a couple of good venues to help them carry on having live music, it's a wise investment. But I don't expect everybody can afford it, so yes, I think playing for free -to some extent, temporarily- is a good idea, as long as we don't create a two tier thing with bands that play for free and others that won't, especifically not 'pointing fingers' are those who insist on being paid fully if their finances depend on music. We expect bar staff to be paid too. We need the music scene to recover, for the long term benefit.

 

[ultra60]

If a club was good to you, prior to the crisis, I see no problem giving something back. Last week I sent an email, to a club manager, saying we'd would like to give back and provide a no charge show when things re-open.

I hope they take us up on it. I'd like to see them remain in business. One free show is not going to do it. But maybe it helps out a little.

 

[40Hz]

For you.

To each his own. I play for free everytime I pick the thing up don't I? All in all, I get calls. Some good, some alright, but it's almost always a good time. Music dont pay bills anyway. If it did, we wouldn't have time to be on this site. We'd be working. Going somewhere else, writing, recording, and being told what to do to keep them paid...always.

Plus, I know a #&$% ton of people. Before this virus, I always kept busy. After the lockdown, I'll be busy again.

Goody for you!

Many if not most of us here get calls, have fun playing, don't use music to pay our bills, have day jobs, were busy before Covid, will be busy afterwards (although I'm fairly busy right now), and know a ton of people.

But unlike you maybe they don't feel the need to be apologetic about frequenting TalkBass or be dismissive about it.

And the funny thing is many of them also somehow do manage to make some money playing music despite the dismal landscape live music has become. Something partly due to people who are so eager to strut their stuff on stage that they happily do it for free and thereby commoditized the market for the service as loss leaders so often do. But whatever, right?

Because like you said, to each their own.

 

[Fat Freddy]

I was a plumber.....

What do you suppose the odds of me turning up and fixing your problem for free as a marketing ploy were?.....