Playing Fretless - finding the balance?

[4Slater]

I'm finding that in my effort to avoid "overdoing the fretless sound" (you know, the fretless players who smear mwah over everything, gliss all over, slide harmonics in every song, etc.) I've been leaning pretty far the other way - heard a playback of myself today and I sound pretty much like I'm playing fretted.
While that leaves me feeling pretty good about my intonation
I also feel like I'm not really utilizing the expressiveness of the instrument as fully as I might.

If you play fretless, how do you find that balance for yourself (do you even try)?
What bassists do you think achieve that balance - who do you hear that you think "yeah, that's niiiice..."??

I find balance in the strings.

I use DR black beauties [40-105]

The round wounds give me the option of having a fretted and very brite sound.

What pickup makes a difference.

When you use the bridge pickup and roll off the tone about half way, you get the electric fretless [ala Tony Franklin]..

If you use the neck pickup, it sounds upright.

Both [humbucking if it's a jazz] you get the full and bright fretted tone if you want it.

I've found that vibratto or the lack there of makes you sound either fretless or fretted too.

It's simple for me. I play in a cover band right now. There's not much choice. Most of the material I play is fretted.

I use a fretless bass on about half of what we do. It's lighter than my 5-string. Plus every now and then, I like to throw in a shake and or a slide and wake up the musicians in the audience. As soon as a guitarist or bassist hears a fretless, they stare. It never fails.

 

[basspraiser]

I just got my first fretless so the "mwah" is still a fascination (sp?) of mine.....I have only experimented with it in the comfort of my home office and have yet to play it out....I am planning to only play it on songs that "need" the mwah and to use a fretted for everything else.....why use a fretless if you do not use the unique tones it has (NOTE: comment from a newbie infidel!)

 

[4Slater]

.....why use a fretless if you do not use the unique tones it has (NOTE: comment from a newbie infidel!)

I've been fretless for 18 years. I take pride in being able to sound fretted as well. It takes a precise hand to pull it off. I also do a lot of vocals so it's definately a skill.

Afretless bass at first will make you more basic. Then it will train your ear. Finally it will make you a complete player when it comes to tonality.

less is more.

 

[René_Julien]

I've been fretless for 18 years. I take pride in being able to sound fretted as well. It takes a precise hand to pull it off. I also do a lot of vocals so it's definately a skill.

Afretless bass at first will make you more basic. Then it will train your ear. Finally it will make you a complete player when it comes to tonality.

less is more.

+1

I'm about exclusively fretless for about 6 years.

I went fretless for other reasons the most bassists. Not because I wanted to show off, mimic the sound of an upright or going mwaaah all the time.

I also play with roundwounds. Sounds no different from a fretted (not much). So can play anything in any style a fretted does.

Fretless gives me faster and smoother action.
But it also gives me an extra option for expression.

Only if I want to I'll let people know it is a fretless.

And the most important reason: I enjoy the feel of a fretless fingerboard. It makes me feel better.


Not every fretless bass player is the same people, just as not every fretted bass player is the same.

I think the main difference between exclusivly fretless and fretted&fretless bassists is: the excl. fretlessers need the fretless to be versatile and do everything, while the other (fretted&fretless) are perhaps more versatile bassists and pick up the fretless when a song needs it.

I'll think that is the point that 4Slater also wants to make.
To some the fretless is a do-it-all.
To others they themself are do-it-all bassists and have several kinds of basses in their arsenal.

Note: I don't have disrespect for fretted bassists or bassists who use both.
Freedom of choice.

 

[kesslari]

Good posts here.

C'thulu, your user name suggests your posts should be less sensible and considerably more evil.

I'm not likely to go exclusively fretless as my fretted bass is also a joy to play.
That said, I find myself often "forgetting" and bringing the "wrong" bass (the fretless) to practices and gigs with my Americana band.
And nobody complains.

I'm definitely having fun exploring and finding my voice on this very expressive instrument.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, brothers and sisters, and letting me think out loud.

 

[René_Julien]

Good posts here.

C'thulu, your user name suggests your posts should be less sensible and considerably more evil.

Well, uhm, when I'm not in my watery prison or haunting some shorelines I am a mildly mannered bassist.

I'm not likely to go exclusively fretless as my fretted bass is also a joy to play.
That said, I find myself often "forgetting" and bringing the "wrong" bass (the fretless) to practices and gigs with my Americana band.
And nobody complains.

I'm definitely having fun exploring and finding my voice on this very expressive instrument.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, brothers and sisters, and letting me think out loud.

Several years ago I was in a metalband (that I started with my best friend) and in a rockband (because my girlfriend at the time was the singer and then suddenly needed a new bassist).
The band members looked a bit weary when I sold my fretted and showed up at rehearsel with my fretless. But after the session they begged me not to use any other bass anymore.
Not so much for the sound of the fretless, but because I played so much better with it.
In the metalband it was useful because I actual was the lead instrumentalist. Because the guitarist couldn't play solo's or lead and allowed me.
In the rockband I learned much because they all were experienced musicians.

So big motivations for me back then.

When I started playing bass, my influence was Cliff Burton.
But because I couldn't work with a wah-pedal I compensated with a fretless. And develloped my own style.



Oh, and BTW kesslari,...

I stille will swallow your soul!!!

 

[4Slater]

+1

I'm about exclusively fretless for about 6 years.

I went fretless for other reasons the most bassists. Not because I wanted to show off, mimic the sound of an upright or going mwaaah all the time.

I also play with roundwounds. Sounds no different from a fretted (not much). So can play anything in any style a fretted does.

Fretless gives me faster and smoother action.
But it also gives me an extra option for expression.

Only if I want to I'll let people know it is a fretless.

And the most important reason: I enjoy the feel of a fretless fingerboard. It makes me feel better.


Not every fretless bass player is the same people, just as not every fretted bass player is the same.

I think the main difference between exclusivly fretless and fretted&fretless bassists is: the excl. fretlessers need the fretless to be versatile and do everything, while the other (fretted&fretless) are perhaps more versatile bassists and pick up the fretless when a song needs it.

I'll think that is the point that 4Slater also wants to make.
To some the fretless is a do-it-all.
To others they themself are do-it-all bassists and have several kinds of basses in their arsenal.

Note: I don't have disrespect for fretted bassists or bassists who use both.
Freedom of choice.

For the longest time I was fretless all the time.

my fretted bass is a 5-string.

Your post basically says the same thing mine did in a different way.

The fretless bass gives you more versatility.

I even slap with it.

Bottom line,

every basist should own one. it makes you a better player.

and using rounds gives you a wider tone range.

 

[kesslari]

Recent gig. Now I just gotta stop looking at the fretboard!

 

[acleex38]

I played a gig the other night, where, between sets, a bass-playing acquaintance with MUCH more experience than I have complimented my fretless tone, but commented that "you'll come to realize that there are things you just can't do in rock with a fretless bass" (this was in the context of us covering Social Distortion and me running my fretless through a Bluebeard Fuzz and a Sansamp BDDI to get the tone I wanted).

On the one hand, he's right - on the other hand, if I was yearning for paying traditional rock gigs, I wouldn't be playing a short-scale fretless through a phaser 90% of the time.

 

[LowBSix]

Don't think about it...

If you wanna play fretless do it...

Create and "play"....

 

[MoEllis]

Personally i think there a time for both fretless and fretted bass. If you have to try and hold bacck on a fretless and make it sound like a fretted, then why not play a fretted on that song? When you have a song when a lot of mwah is needed and all those characteristics of a f/less. Both have there place and both can be very versatile.

as for everyone that doesnt like carrying 2 basses, i normally have an upright and an electric, so i'd just get a double gig bag and call it a day lol

 

[Baryonyx]

I just let it come naturally. I like my fretless to sound like I'm playing a fretless, though I try not to overdo it with mwah and such, I just do what is needed. I don't really think about toning it down or anything, just doing what I have to do.

 

[kesslari]

Fun to see this thread resurface.
I'm playing fretless about 80-80% of the time now, and loving it.
I'm finding myself using more of the tonal possibilities of the fretless.
It's been a wonderful inspiration to really work on my articulation and phrasing, as well of course as on my intonation.

What a rich and wonderful instrument we have.

 

[Kael]

Don't worry about it. Just play the dang thing however you feel it sounds best. You'll know when you are overdoing the fretless mwah thing when that tone starts bugging you. Trust your own sense of musicality.

At least that's what I do. Still am getting calls for fill in/sub work, so no complaints from those hiring me yet. I've actually had a couple peopple mention that they prefer the fretless J.

PS: 100% of my playing these days is fretless. Has been that way for a while now. That's liable to change if my arm heals up enough to start gigging the 'wick 6 again (or if I wind up selling it for a more ergonmic 5'er) however.

 

[Gordon of Eden]

There are so many nuances to fretless playing and it just takes time and experience to learn your instrument and develop your sound. Alot of people confuse the mwah with sliding into or out of notes. The mwah is the basis of the fretless sound! I was taught long ago that you should strive to play the note at pitch and not slide into it unless it is for a specific effect. Where you pluck can also have some bearing on the amount of mwah as well as where your pickup volumes are. Playing close to the neck with more bridge pickup will yield more mwah while playing over the bridge pickup with both full on will be a little more fretted sounding and of course playing back toward the bridge with the neck pu dialed back or off will give you more Jaco tone. You can also get less mwah by adjusting your truss rod to add a little more relief. It takes alot of practice and experimentation. There was a time when I brought the fretless exclusively to every gig just to get used to it. I can take it for rock, blues, country etc. most people just hearing it won't realize anything different. Visually it sometimes doesn't fit but I've never been hassled for it.

 

[bh2]

I've been playing fretless since 1980... I'm still trying to find the balance!

 

[hockey_head]

remember ADSR from the early synth days? Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release. I like to use these terms to describe the tonal differences between fretted and fretless basses.
I love both sounds.
When playing the fretless "straight" I get into a completely different groove and let the shorter, less sustained notes create an airy feel.I tend to pluck right up on the fretboard for big round attack and I tend to play less notes.

 

[Wilbyman]

I really like Gary Willis' concept...he mostly sounds like he's playing fretted (or, at least a fretted with low low action) but when he wants, he will bring out the sound of the fingerboard (on slow tunes).

I pretty much think of Gary as the greatest upright player in the world...that's really his concept, to me. I don't hear many upright players maxing out the vibrato at all.

W

 

[Brad Johnson]

Rules to live by!!! Figure out what tones and techniques work for the given tune and do it. Simple as that.

That's what I do. That's why I find it so easy to gig with a fretless in place of a fretted. The only difference is that I can get away with not hearing myself as well with a fretted. I always try to avoid that issue.

 

[EclecticElectrk]

I have had the same problem! When I first got the fretless, the action was really nice and low, but I was mwahhing all over the place without even trying (part of that was also playing a fretted so long and the techniques I used to get more expression out of it). I raised the strings but now am finding that its hard to tell Im even using a fretless.

So my solution was to lower my strings a little, but really choose my spots to unleash something like a well placed mwahh, and then play normally the rest of the time. IMO, a great fretless player wont let you know he is playing one until he WANTS you to know. Its really been more about restraint for me than anything else.

+1 a great fretless player could have it sound like a fretted until he wanted you to know it wasnt.