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Playing note for note.

Yeah, and I never said you said that. LOL.

I don't think we're miles apart in our views my friend.

But I am interested in how you would quantify a song as "good" or "not good," apart from your own personal judgment...

Well, we agree on this, "For me, playing "note for note" means you nailed the signature parts, the groove, feel, etc. It SOUNDS LIKE the original. 100% note for note is not even possible to do every time, IMO" Whenever I hear that someone plays something note for note my BS alarm goes off.

How I quantify a song as good or bad, it's like pornography - I can't tell you what it is, but I know it when I see it. :D I guess I'll have to be honest and admit that it's really just my opinion, backed up by 54 years of being a know it all!

You seem like a good guy and I admire someone that can get into a spirited debate that doesn't get into the gutter.
 
Wait a sec. I'll admit I skimmed a bit, but "dancing cougars?" Therein lies the rub; what demographic are most cover bands appealing to...and WHERE? Like I mentioned in my other recent thread about cover bands, not everyone is gonna want the same stuff. 20-somethings would probably rather hear 80s or 90s covers than 60s. What makes a song "good"? Well, the biggest target is still the youth of today...NOT the, er, cougars. So where does THAT leave it? Do most 20-somethings have any concept of "good" songs, never mind the accuracy of others' interpretations? I don't know. What do you guys think and what would statistics show us?
 
If you can get 90% of the song's feel and signature notes or can improve on the original then the audience will enjoy the song and still be able to engage in it. I see James Taylor and Simon and Garfunkel shows on TV where they are using studio players to fill in and the bassist cops the feel and the majority of the signature stuff and then adds their own nice additions/flavors in a tasteful dialog with the other live musicians.

So I've got no problem with this "don't have to play the song note for note" argument in theory. My problem is in practice.

I've played with only one guitarist in my life who actually was able to improve on the original. Everyone else that complained about playing note for note and thought they could make something up that worked OK was dead wrong. Their ears and talent and musicianship were poor and the stuff they came up with detracted from the song rather than added to it. In their case they were being lazy and were sadly misguided about their own abilities. I, as the band leader, the one with final responsibility for the quality of the product, had to demand note for note. I'm sure they hated me for it but I did what had to be done. And surprise, surprise the quality of the music went up and we began to attract more skilled players.

Some of you who are being asked to play note for note by your band mates and are chaffing at the constraints of this should look at yourselves honestly and see if there isn't a valid reason you're being asked to play this way.
 
I think the "dancing cougars" was just a fun way to talk about the audience. I don't think the approach to note for note changes that much whether playing 60's music to 50 year olds or 00's music to 20 year olds.

I guess if you have to enforce note for note to keep sucky players from sucking, well, that sucks.
 
Some of you who are being asked to play note for note by your band mates and are chaffing at the constraints of this should look at yourselves honestly and see if there isn't a valid reason you're being asked to play this way.

I would say that this should be discussed before you join a band. Most problems I have had in bands stem from failure to discuss goals and expectations prior to joining. I talk about this issue before I audition. There is no sense in wasting my time or the band's.
 

Fantastic cross-section. It's all about how you do it. A crowd would dance to any one of these. Forget about nailing the "original". Play with chops and feel... move everyone and they'll love it....
 
A lot of it, for me, is really contingent upon the style of music. I like to hear musicians covering rock music to be as close to the original as possible...especially when it comes to arrangement. Blues music, on the other hand, warrants improvisation. I'm ambivalent when it comes to country music - I don't mind rearrangement on older tunes, but I like modern country, particularly from the '70s onward, to be fairly faithful to the original ( minus, perhaps, fiddle and steel work). Obviously, Jazz should be improvised with the exception of the head. When it comes to oldies, I think the vocal arrangement should take precedent over everything else.

Around here, there are a crop of agency bands that do "rocked up" covers of Top 40 pop, like Lady Gaga, as well as 80s cheese. It's not really my thing, but those bands make a ton of money.

Also, take a song like James Brown's Sex Machine. There is no set pattern to the bass part, just a series of variations on the main line repeated randomly. What would the point be of memorizing the exact order of each variation?

That kind of reminds me of times I had to learn Sweet Child 'O Mine. I actually learned every fill and variation that Duff played on that song. Unfortunately, I never found myself playing that tune for very long, so I would end up forgetting all of those nuances that I learned. I could still fake my way through the arrangement now, though. I'll probably have to learn that song again someday.
 
I guess if you have to enforce note for note to keep sucky players from sucking, well, that sucks.

that's where I'm at in this thread too, and probably what the OP was driving at. one of the least favorite things to hear from bandmates is the suggestion to take a song and "just rock it up" or "do a punk version" of it. Translation: we aren't good enough to learn it so we'll cover it up with lots of distortion.
 
but "dancing cougars?" Therein lies the rub; what demographic are most cover bands appealing to...and WHERE? ?

Since you're in the area, book a gig in Greenwich, CT. Dancing HOT cougars galore...

Do you really mean to say these guys couldn't learn a faithful cover without TABS?

The guitarists in my last band would not have been able to, of course they really didn't even learn songs with tab...correctly at least. We had an argument over the chords in the chorus of Mary Jane's Last Dance. Repeatedly telling me I was wrong, it just doesn't sound right, etc, etc.

So I said put it on, put your money where your mouth is. I certainly will. Even after hearing he was flat out wrong, he still played it his way.

The other guitarist was looking up the tab on his phone...:rollno:

Ears! Use them!
 
Bands or band leaders who want you to play "just like the record" are complete novices and should be avoided. First of all, very few, if any touring recording acts are able to, much less desire to play their own stuff exactly like the record because studio and live are two different animals and very often the studio recordings are augmented with additional players and/or instruments not to mention studio effects. Bottom line, playing a song "just like the record" is silly and unrealistic to expect.
 
I play both bass and saxophone and sing backup harmonies in a 50'/60's/70's music (all genre- rock and roll, some country, lighter jazz standards, even some polkas) for mostly older people at RV resorts. These folks know what the songs should sound like, so we attempt to capture as much of the originals as possible so we can pass as a cover type band. Our lead singer is also a Johnny Mathis impersonator. With our limited personel- bass, keyboard (who covers the bass when I play sax), guitar and drums, we can pretty much capture the essence of the songs without having to be a perfect copy. We keep getting hired back and play about two gigs a week( we could accept more, but most of the guys don't want to work mid-week due to their day jobs). We are considered the best band of this type with these older retirees and are very popular- we are already booked for New Years 2012, 2013 and 2014 . These folks hire people like Wayne Newton and The Statler Brothers so they are somewhat picky on how their money is spent and the money is pretty good compared to alot of places I've played over the years. My point being, the songs don't have to (and can't) be exact copies of the originals to make people happy- but they just have to be close enough to sound like the originals . As long as I play the bass line that starts out "Stand by Me" or "Brown Eyed Girl" through most of the song, and the guitar or sax solos are recognizable, the drummer is coping the basic original style we are successful.
I imagine there are some bands that would require more perfect renditions of the originals, but we don't seem to have to be one of those bands to get work. I think an example of that kind of arranginging would be the bands that back up the original Doo-wop groups on the PBS specials. Those guys are all studuio musicians reading charts made from the original 45's.