Playing On a Deck...What Do You Do? (stage sound issues)

[LowStringNinja]

It really didn't go bad yesterday, but man...things sounded weird up there. I took a recording from the
crowd, and it sounded way better than I'd feared..
But the drummer and I were definitely losing a lot of low end through that deck into the ground or
something...I brought two rear-ported cabs and started wishing that maybe I'd brought my bigger front
ported cab instead...and I had to really crank my rig, which made it tougher for us..it had to be deafening
for us.
Then, the house and glass doors the deck was up against was doing something awful...the guitar player
thought I was a half-step out of tune until I re-positioned his amp, and I had to encourage him to not trust
his ear and just play.
The only things I can come up with for dealing with a setup like this in the future seem impractical to me.
I suppose that with a low stage volume and full sound reinforcement with subs, poles and a soundman on
the ground it would've been easier to hear...or if I had big heavy sheets of rubber down on the deck and
behind us or something crazy...but those things weren't happening, it was just a yard party for a hundred
people...not the kind of thing to bring a soundman or a second van full of construction materials.
Maybe just saying 'no' to yard parties on tiny decks is the solution.

 

[s0c9]

I wouldn't over analyze it.. if you are providing backline with no PA support, what you hear/feel on stage often isn't what the audience feels..
As long as you are not getting complaints from out front.. go with the flow. Adjust.

For example.. I played a number of times on this massive Dallas Toby Keith's stage (see pics below), last time was about 4yrs ago. Pro level stage with pro PA (Stoney Larue's former engineer was FOH at the time). Different band than now, and we were not using IEM's. I had a 1500w stage monitor pointed at me.. the stage sound was horrendous - not mix related - but due to concrete floor with wooden walls as you can see in the pics. But it sounded pretty darn good out front (listen to unedited audio track on Jamey Johnson cover in attached vid). This was EVERY time we played there..
Keep in mind that HD cams mics don't often pick up a lot of LF.

 

[4Mal]

Good lord! Tell me those black rectangles aren't subs....

 

[s0c9]

Good lord! Tell me those black rectangles aren't subs....

OK.. I will tell you ... LOL, but nah, those really were subs!
Did you catch the hanging line arrays in the 3rd pic.. ????
And all that was INDOORS !!
I think someone once told me 40,000w.. no seriously!!!
The FOH console was a Link Removed
Will all of that, they didn't pay much attention to the stage side of it.. LOL

 

[4Mal]

oh man. The blow back or up on stage must suck...

 

[s0c9]

oh man. The blow back or up on stage must suck...

it did... but it's closed now.. they turned it into the Gas Monkey Bar And Grill and I heard they replaced the entire Audio system... haven't been there since.. as I'm usually gigging

 

[4Mal]

Gotta wonder how systems like that happen ? Audio 'consultant' had to be a bozo or the operative syllable was 'con'.

 

[s0c9]

Gotta wonder how systems like that happen ? Audio 'consultant' had to be a bozo or the operative syllable was 'con'.

Was probably done the same outfit that did some of his other franchises systems... who you know approach... would be my guess.
That said.. the FOH sound was PDG.. but the stage????
Concrete stage with all those subs.. can you imagine the "rumble" and resonant frequencies ??? Fun venue.. but not the easiest to play without ears.
Current band (all IEM) would not have had an issue there..

 

[bucephylus]

I use vibration isolation devices under my cabs when playing on hollow stages. YMMV

 

[LowStringNinja]

I use vibration isolation devices under my cabs when playing on hollow stages. YMMV

what is that, like a heavy rubber mat or something?

 

[bucephylus]

what is that, like a heavy rubber mat or something?

The most well known commercial version are the Auralex pads. I make more mobile pads, and the construction is described on tecpadz.com

 

[hrodbert696]

what is that, like a heavy rubber mat or something?

Yeah, I got an Auralex pad and it helps with these kinds of things. But honestly, you could probably get a rectangle of foam rubber or some such for cheaper and get the same effect. Isolate your cab from the deck/stage so it doesn't "couple." Honestly, though, I'm surprised that a deck would suck your low end. Usually I'd expect it to resonate at certain frequencies that would normally be low ones. But who knows?

 

[bucephylus]

Yeah, I got an Auralex pad and it helps with these kinds of things. But honestly, you could probably get a rectangle of foam rubber or some such for cheaper and get the same effect. Isolate your cab from the deck/stage so it doesn't "couple." Honestly, though, I'm surprised that a deck would suck your low end. Usually I'd expect it to resonate at certain frequencies that would normally be low ones. But who knows?

Some materials most definitely work better than others. But, something is better than nothing. I've effectively used those foam gardening pads in moments of desperation at the gig.

The biggest problem with hollow stages is their unpredictability. You literally never know what they will do to the mix. Best to be prepared.

 

[shaft311]

If you're playing on someone's home deck, make it sound as good as you can with what you've given, and have some drinks. Don't kill yourself trying to tune every speaker, though. Nobody is going to be expecting it to sound like you're in Carnegie Hall.

 

[bigtone23]

I woudn't worry about it. In the end, it's a yard party on a deck. The expectations are to rock out. All you can do is get the onstage mix as good as possible so you play comfortably. Don't turn up too much as the drummer gets buried and that is not how to sound rockin'! When the mix is good enough, go for it.
You got it, playing outside does require more power and low end support. A sub for the bass drum and a bass would have made the low end more comfortable and brought the overall volume down, I'm sure.

 

[Downunderwonder]

You read it here first folks. Magic rubber not only stops boom it stops suck too!!

 

[Ulf_Hansson]

Many, many years ago I played a venue where the whole floor would start to wobble from music/dancing. But the roof structure were good so they flew everything - and remember, this was many years before the line arrays took over.
When we got there we had wires from the roof to hang all our amps, even the drum stage was elevated this way!

 

[bucephylus]

You read it here first folks. Magic rubber not only stops boom it stops suck too!!

What is "magic rubber?"

 

[LiquidMidnight]

I used to play this venue where the dance area was basically a concrete garage connected to the main building and the stage was sort of an elevated wooden deck. We never used subs there (though we probably should have, despite the room not being very large). The room was a total black hole for low-end. I would EQ in obscene amounts of low-end on my amp that sounded totally obnoxious on stage. The first night I played there, after every couple of songs, I would reach back and reposition my rack from it walking across the top of my cabinet just due to the amount of vibration happening (at subsequent gigs, I put my head on the floor of the stage), However, when listening out front, the bass sounded totally balanced and defined. Honestly, we had some incredible mixes in that room.

I used to play a really big room that was once a strip club. The owners cut off the cat walk and used the original stage, which was tall and hollow. It basically acted like a huge huge subwoofer. Lows would sound like they are feeding back on stage but would sound fine out in the house. You couldn't put mains in front of the stage, so the best thing to do was put the tops on tripods on stage and stack subs off to the side of the stage.