Playing with 3 fingers, is it really necessary?

[Fergie Fulton]

I also sometimes practice two fingers using only ring and middle. It helps building strength in my ring finger which is noticably weaker than the other two. It also helps building coordination/independance between ring and middle which is also somewhat lacking for me.

Believe it or not, a better way to do this is use the forefinger and the ringfinger. The middle finger gets the benefit because of the shared usage it has with both fingers, it lets the dominant forefinger work radial side muscle groups, and the ringfinger work ulnar side muscle groups, all located in the forearm, each side also has separate nerve supplies ...the middle finger gets the benefit because of the anatomy and body mechanics involved.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Gary Willis uses a variation on the technique you describe, although he may also use 3 fingers on occasion. Although he's playing a different style, he certainly has Steve Harris speed. I've never needed 3 fingers, neither has John (Juan) Alderete of Racer-X and Mars Volta or Jeff Berlin. However, since you're a newbie I say try it all.
I have always looked at 2 finger technique like running-one foot and then the next. If you keep your motion economical you can play with 2 fingers at speeds "fast enough to get fired"

So true Roy, and what seems to be happening lately is a lot of questions about finger styles. Finger styles are just that styles that form a purpose or function. If you can do what needs to be done with your technique then it is "fit for purpose".

There are some rules to follow concerning fitness and injury prevention, but most posts seem to be about developing speed. Speed is a by product of learning, the better you become at any task, job, or physical activity, the faster you can do it......just ask my wife.

 

[Rickett Customs]

I use 4. But after saying that, my pinky out of the others gets the least use.

If I need the attack to sound extremely consistent, i'll change over to "the hook".

 

[LowB-ing]

Believe it or not, a better way to do this is use the forefinger and the ringfinger. The middle finger gets the benefit because of the shared usage it has with both fingers, it lets the dominant forefinger work radial side muscle groups, and the ringfinger work ulnar side muscle groups, all located in the forearm, each side also has separate nerve supplies ...the middle finger gets the benefit because of the anatomy and body mechanics involved.

I've actually done that to. I used to do it as much as my ring-middle excercise, but found it wasn't as beneficial with regards to ring-middle independence. Thats one of the most difficult aspects of three finger playing for me.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

I wish I played more consistently with 3 fingers. It's something I've been practicing (albeit, not enough), here and there for years now. However, I'm at the point in my playing where I'm spending more time making music than working my chops.

I'd suggest you learn it now and really practice on consistency. I wish I had.

 

[Willem]

I'm giving it another go.
Especially for metal, which we both play, it's hard to reach 16ths at 220 bpm with two fingers. I don't know if I ever will be able to play that fast, but I'm going to try.

I'm set on RMIRMIRMI...
I'm currently practicing everything I used to do with two fingers, but with three. I figure I'll get stamina in my ringfinger and in time 'the thinking' will go away .

 

[somegeezer]

The way I do it... Mute the string with your thumb or fretting hand and use all 4 fingers.

 

[Grayson C.]

I guess I'll be a dissenting voice here.

(I posted this in a different thread a couple of days back)

There really isn't a reason to play with 3 fingers for even the fastest basslines. Once you learn how to use two fingers properly, you can *technically* play twice as fast as any pick player, even. A pick is a single surface that strikes the string on both sides. Your fingers are two surfaces that traditionally strike the string from only one side (the pads), but can also be used for two sides. You can play any 4 notes with absolutely blazing speed with this technique.

Just play with two fingers. Three is just silly. Use the backs of your fingers if you need more speed. would you prefer to play with 3 playing surfaces and have to essentially rewire your brain to think in triplets which, as was pointed out above, dramatically affects your playing, or would you prefer to have 4 playing surfaces and think exactly the same way you would when playing with 2 fingers.

There are however, times that I use a traditional PIMA approach to playing bass particularly when I use the top and bottom strings a lot during a particularly fleshed out and harmonized bass line. But these are rare and essentially amount to playing both rhythm and bass at the same time. This is the only place I've ever found a thumb technique to be useful, but others disagree.

 

[bazzanderson]

I don't think anyone mentioned this in the thread but Mr. Harris has mentioned several times in interviews that he only uses two fingers. You can see it as well in videos....it looks like he uses his ring finger but it's only moving in conjuntion with his middle finger. That being said....I can't believe how fast he is with two fingers!

 

[FunkMetalBass]

I guess I'll be a dissenting voice here.

(I posted this in a different thread a couple of days back)

There really isn't a reason to play with 3 fingers for even the fastest basslines. Once you learn how to use two fingers properly, you can *technically* play twice as fast as any pick player, even. A pick is a single surface that strikes the string on both sides. Your fingers are two surfaces that traditionally strike the string from only one side (the pads), but can also be used for two sides. You can play any 4 notes with absolutely blazing speed with this technique.

Just play with two fingers. Three is just silly. Use the backs of your fingers if you need more speed. would you prefer to play with 3 playing surfaces and have to essentially rewire your brain to think in triplets which, as was pointed out above, dramatically affects your playing, or would you prefer to have 4 playing surfaces and think exactly the same way you would when playing with 2 fingers.

There are however, times that I use a traditional PIMA approach to playing bass particularly when I use the top and bottom strings a lot during a particularly fleshed out and harmonized bass line. But these are rare and essentially amount to playing both rhythm and bass at the same time. This is the only place I've ever found a thumb technique to be useful, but others disagree.

Really? Using your fingernails?

Not only do the strings just grind through nails, there is considerable tonal inconsistency, especially in regards to the attack.

The pick vs. fingers argument is age old. Fingers beat picks in terms of quantity, but fingers also have to move in a bit of an elliptical motion, where as picks are fairly lateral in movement and thus have less room to move. Neither is quicker or better, just different styles.

I don't think anyone mentioned this in the thread but Mr. Harris has mentioned several times in interviews that he only uses two fingers. You can see it as well in videos....it looks like he uses his ring finger but it's only moving in conjuntion with his middle finger. That being said....I can't believe how fast he is with two fingers!

And then you watch Steve DiGiorgio and realize that three fingers is probably faster.

 

[LowB-ing]

Really? Using your fingernails?

Not only do the strings just grind through nails, there is considerable tonal inconsistency, especially in regards to the attack.

+1. This was my experienca also. This technique works great on nylon string guitar where you can keep your fingernails so long that you get consistent attack between "upstrokes" and "downstrokes", because it's all fingernail all the time. The fingertips are never involved in hitting the string. I've never seen anyone pull it off on bass. I know my fingernails would last about four bars even if I was careful to not dig in.

The pick vs. fingers argument is age old. Fingers beat picks in terms of quantity, but fingers also have to move in a bit of an elliptical motion, where as picks are fairly lateral in movement and thus have less room to move. Neither is quicker or better, just different styles.

+1 again. Another reason the comparison is flawed is the difference in anatomy between a finger and the wrist/arm/elbow.

And then you watch Steve DiGiorgio and realize that three fingers is probably faster.

+3. Alex Webster is no slouch either.

 

[nysbob]

As a 30+ year 3 finger player, I really don't see anything "silly" about it.

It's not for everyone - if you don't want to go there, fine. If you do - the sooner you start working on it, the sooner you'll become proficient at it.

 

[Sonicfrog]

I've been playing bass for about a month or so and i am starting to wonder if i should change my technique...

Here's the great thing. You're new at this. After only a month, you don't really have a technique yet. This is the perfect time to play around with different techniques to see what works, and what feels more natural. It's a great advantage to learn all sorts of different things before you start to settle into a preferred physical mode.

Absorb it! Live the Dream!!!

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Gary Willis uses a variation on the technique you describe, although he may also use 3 fingers on occasion. Although he's playing a different style, he certainly has Steve Harris speed. I've never needed 3 fingers, neither has John (Juan) Alderete of Racer-X and Mars Volta or Jeff Berlin. However, since you're a newbie I say try it all.
I have always looked at 2 finger technique like running-one foot and then the next. If you keep your motion economical you can play with 2 fingers at speeds "fast enough to get fired"

+1

Not to toot my own horn but I`ve yet to meet anyone who can play faster than me with three fingers than I can we two (cleanly at least). That said, I`ve yet to see anyone with two or three fingers play faster than the guys who`ve master four finger technique and implement their thumb into their playing as well. It`s sick what those guys can do, but I have no patience to learn it.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

I've actually done that to. I used to do it as much as my ring-middle excercise, but found it wasn't as beneficial with regards to ring-middle independence. Thats one of the most difficult aspects of three finger playing for me.

Its not about finger independence, its about finger interaction.
We like to build certain finger sides up to deal with problems, sort of get them with the flow, then work in the interaction.
I am a big believer in working on individual fingers but normally that is because they have a weakness that needs to be addressed.
Instant results is not the name of the game here, better results that last and are healthy is what we really should be looking for.
Fingers are primarily joints, so they have a shelf life, so they need to be looked after. Playing till we are tired is not good health, that's when injury occurs, or putting in the "pain for the gain" again injury is not far behind that one.

The world is full of Joggers who now realise there feet, knees and hips have been damaged in a pursuit they thought was beneficial.
Musicians suffer in the same way to the extent some physicians that deal with musicians can tell the instrument used by the injury presented to them before the patient even utters a word.

So take care with what you do with the hands and remember the rule "Damage comes from misuse and over use"

I guess I'll be a dissenting voice here.

(I posted this in a different thread a couple of days back)

There really isn't a reason to play with 3 fingers for even the fastest basslines.

No... your point is a great one, but its not about speed and that is where the misunderstandings come in. If you want speed use a pick, most metal guitarists use one and they have no problems.

This type of conversation never happens with piano players.. or a secretary typing 80 WPM or any brass players that uses valves in playing. It happens with bass players because the results are negligible in sound, in other word the immediate cause and effect do not tie up..we cannot hear how many fingers are being used.

In the long term there may be a price to pay...maybe.
A balanced healthy use uses both sides of the hand, that is the radial side, which is the thumb, fore and middle finger, and the ulnar side, which is little and ring finger, with some middle finger ability. This also brings in daily hand use, how much have you used your hands before you even get to pick up that bass?

Anyone looking for speed in there playing is developing the wrong skill sets. Speed as i have said comes from better playing and time spent getting to know your instrument. It takes time to become proficient, that means a lot of things and includes playing fast.

If anybody wants more info follow the link to My myspace blogs and check out a few things and if anyone has any questions post them or drop me a PM.

Link Removed

also an older post on the subject, maybe post on there so as not to high jack this thread?

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=577141&highlight=

 

[tomilchik]

+1 Fergie Fulton's post

And:
some of my thoughts and experiences (disclosure: I don't play metal. Mostly jazz, pop, funk)

I use 3 fingers on bass, as a leftover technique from acoustic guitar (played for years, still do). Regularly doing exercises where I play scales/etc. with IM-IR-RM pairs.

Ring finger sees relatively little use on bass, though. It is weaker than the other two (despite exercises), it's nerves are wired via different path (medical fact: IM are wired via one path, RP - via another). Sound consistency suffers, too: think of the fact that R is positioned much closer to the bridge than I and M.

That said: the slower I play - the more likely I'll use R finger. Sometimes on ballads I switch fully to R - just as an exercise.

When I definitely use R:
- "gallop". R-M-I is very effective here;
- octaves (always R+I);
- chords;
- for "tremolo" effect. Very fast... whatever... I guess they come out 32's. Some people here actually play whole bass lines like that

 

[CYDbass]

...
When I definitely use R:

- for "tremolo" effect. Very fast... whatever... I guess they come out 32's. Some people here actually play whole bass lines like that

This is another technique that I've recently come across after having a bass teacher for the last few months who is also a classically trained guitarist He studies a lot of flamenco-style music for his PHd, and his speed on an acoustic guitar using the tremolo technique is unbelievable. It's something I'm just starting, very slowly, to try on bass, but which I think would sound brilliant when mastered.

Just to pick your brains, what order do you play in? Thumb, Ring, Middle, Index is the way I was taught, but maybe reversing the order of the fingers might work too?

 

[vin*tone]

No. It isn't.

 

[MarkMcBass]

I've been playing bass for about a month or so and i am starting to wonder if i should change my technique now so it wouldn't be a pain later on. I use my ring finger to mute the string that is below the one i am playing. I use my index and middle finger to play.

Here's the question. I want to play mostly metal stuff when i get better and i am wondering if 3 fingers are really necessary. Since i am REALLY used to my technique(muting with ring finger), i thought maybe i should use other muting methods and progress to 3 finger playing. Is it really necessary? I know steve harris uses only 2 fingers but i don't think i will ever be able to get that speed with only 2 fingers.

How many fingers do you play?
How many fingers do you recommend?

I use four and my thumb when Im plucking chords. Helps for the faster stuff for sure! No need to cheat and use a pick! At first its a pain but soon itll come naturally and you wont worry anymore

 

[Grayson C.]

Really? Using your fingernails?

Not only do the strings just grind through nails, there is considerable tonal inconsistency, especially in regards to the attack.

The pick vs. fingers argument is age old. Fingers beat picks in terms of quantity, but fingers also have to move in a bit of an elliptical motion, where as picks are fairly lateral in movement and thus have less room to move. Neither is quicker or better, just different styles.




And then you watch Steve DiGiorgio and realize that three fingers is probably faster.

You're right the attack IS different when using your nails. But I never said you had to do that. I use my nails when I want a harsher sound but the technique works equally well (with practice) using the very tips of your fingers. Just keep your nails short. Also, I STRONGLY disagree with you (and anyone else) who says that a pick is faster. I can easily play faster than anyone with a pick - that includes any guitar shredder you can think of, Petrucci, Satriani, etc. - using this technique. It truly is the FASTEST way of playing any stringed instrument.

Too bad I hate speed playing, haha.