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Double Bass Plays like Edgar...

#23
Paul Kowert is just the catalyst for an interesting discussion Paul, that's all.

Its important for people to think about who they are as players, what they are saying musically and where they fit. If PK puts us on that road, good for him.

Edgar Meyer's entire 'folky' ouvre leaves me cold whether its his playing on 'Skip, Hop & Wobble' or the dreck that is 'Short Trip Home' and 'Appalachia Waltz'. I'm not as familiar with his classical playing but his playing in my genre misses the point much of the time.

His 'fiddle tunes' are nothing, especially when juxtaposed with Russ Barenberg's great melodies. They don't have any groove, any bounce, any character, they are flavourless intellectual abstractions.

Somebody here has a great sig line about wanting people to feel SOMETHING from their music - well, except for his playing of Lime Rock, I don't feel anything when he plays.
 
#24
I think Paul is a great player, with great chops, also if you're young and you're studying with a guy like Edgar, i think is normal that you will want to sound a bit like your teacher, eventually your true voice will come, that takes time, would you guys call John Clayton a Ray Brown clone?
however, John studied with Ray and for sure he sounded a lot like him , i think your true voice on an intrument takes a long time (in some musicians eventually it will never arrive, but i dont think it will be the case with Paul, i think hes just a young cat who is taken his intrument very seriously and has obvious influences of his teacher)
im not talking about the music, for me true bluegrass is Bill Monroe, Earl Scruggs , Stanley Brothers as true country music is Hank Williams , Faron Young, Ernest Tubb, etc. :hiding:
I wish i had Pauls chops,for sure i could use them...

Nuno
 
#26
If I had a nickle for every bassist that I've heard that trys to emulate Ray Brown, I'd be a rich man. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about that. It's how we learn.

There are only a select few that come out of the gates with our own sound. The rest of us are all copping something that has, without a doubt, been handled quite adequetly by another bassist over the course of the last 300 years.

If we're not allowed to sound like anyone else, we better burn all of our sheet music!
 
#27
Jason Sypher said:
...Can I just say that I think the guy is a monster bass player who has achieved a great deal (?)...
Click to expand...

Jason, thanks so much for sharing this clip. I really enjoyed it.

Its always wonderful to hear/see someone play well, with freedom, regardless of genre, age, pedagogical pedigree, or lack thereof. I really like seeing his fluidity, economical motion, concentration, and fearlessness. He looks as relaxed as he sounds...

Thanks again...this clip made my day.
 
#28
Jason Sypher said:
I had a feeling I might be kicking the beehive a bit. I'm trying to ride that thin line between criticism and respect, a thin line indeed. I want to just hear what people think. I've got a friend who totally disregarded Edgar when I was showing him a vid of Edgar and Chris Thiele. He said something like "oh, yeah, that's some really great improvisation you guys are doing there...(sarcastically)." He's a jazzer. I thought "wow, slamming Edgar, the genius, what the hell is he thinking". But to each his/her own. Wonder what Damon would say about all this?
Click to expand...

I think if you are studying with Edgar directly it is a great plan to learn how to do what he does, and as thoroughly as possible. Let's hope the kid has ideas beyond that and is doing more with it in 10 years.
Edgar has a high level of technique that can lead a lot of places and obviously he is able to impart it to others.

Having a lot of technique is a great start to being able to realize your ideas, unless you are Lawrence Weiner (Invalid Link Removed ) and can get by with just writing your ideas on the wall - they don't become art until they are realized.
This kid is ready to go if a musical idea strikes - unlike a lot of many others including pro players discussed here who are forced to find situations that can accommodate their technical limitations which are often fairly severe.
Of course we can all recount tons of great musical moments where musicians were able to make transcend limitations and make something truly special.
Rather than sit around and wait for stars to align or lightning to strike you can find a great teacher and learn what they do.
 
#30
damonsmith said:
I think if you are studying with Edgar directly it is a great plan to learn how to do what he does, and as thoroughly as possible. Let's hope the kid has ideas beyond that and is doing more with it in 10 years.
Edgar has a high level of technique that can lead a lot of places and obviously he is able to impart it to others.

Having a lot of technique is a great start to being able to realize your ideas, unless you are Lawrence Weiner (Invalid Link Removed ) and can get by with just writing your ideas on the wall - they don't become art until they are realized.
This kid is ready to go if a musical idea strikes - unlike a lot of many others including pro players discussed here who are forced to find situations that can accommodate their technical limitations which are often fairly severe.
Of course we can all recount tons of great musical moments where musicians were able to make transcend limitations and make something truly special.
Rather than sit around and wait for stars to align or lightning to strike you can find a great teacher and learn what they do.
Click to expand...

What he said...+1

I like this fellow's workmanlike approach...get the bass down and go from there. The better, more versatile, and more even the technique, the more types of ideas that can be communicated.

It always makes me happy to see any player who doesn't let the resistance of our instrument dictate what they play.
 
#31
damonsmith said:
I think if you are studying with Edgar directly it is a great plan to learn how to do what he does, and as thoroughly as possible. Let's hope the kid has ideas beyond that and is doing more with it in 10 years.
Edgar has a high level of technique that can lead a lot of places and obviously he is able to impart it to others.

Having a lot of technique is a great start to being able to realize your ideas, unless you are Lawrence Weiner (Invalid Link Removed ) and can get by with just writing your ideas on the wall - they don't become art until they are realized.
This kid is ready to go if a musical idea strikes - unlike a lot of many others including pro players discussed here who are forced to find situations that can accommodate their technical limitations which are often fairly severe.
Of course we can all recount tons of great musical moments where musicians were able to make transcend limitations and make something truly special.
Rather than sit around and wait for stars to align or lightning to strike you can find a great teacher and learn what they do.
Click to expand...

I liken this idea to a quote from a Jimi Hendrix documentary I watched, one interviewee says something along the lines of I put Jimi in the same category as Charlie Parker, John Coltrane and Miles Davis. They all learned the music that was out there thoroughly then took it to the next level and molded it into something new and their own. Parker started with big band and swing music and then had a big hand in starting Bebop. Coltrane played Bebop like no other than took it into the Modal jazz, then him and Mile took it onto cool jazz and later onto Jazz Fusion. But all three started playing the music that was popular and the norm at the time.
 
#32
ArenW said:
If I had a nickle for every bassist that I've heard that trys to emulate Ray Brown, I'd be a rich man. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about that. It's how we learn.

There are only a select few that come out of the gates with our own sound. The rest of us are all copping something that has, without a doubt, been handled quite adequetly by another bassist over the course of the last 300 years.

If we're not allowed to sound like anyone else, we better burn all of our sheet music!
Click to expand...

Even Ray Brown didn't have his own sound out of the gate. When he was starting people called him "Slam Pettiford" because he sounded like he was just imitating Slam Stewart and Oscar Pettiford. I think Ray turned out alright in the end...
 
#36
I play with a great older player who has the whole '60s free jazz/spiritual vibe. So one day I asked him why he had to practice if he gets his music from god? He answered that if the creator gives you some to play it won't always be easy so you have to be ready.
Personally, I am not a religious or spiritual person but I always thought there was real wisdom in what he said.
I like to be ready for all ideas and situations - for one you can relax and enjoy them rather than stressing and sweating.
Also, betting on being Haden, Van Gough or Billie Holiday is a real long shot. Empty virtuosity is still virtuosity, poor technique with nothing else to impart is just bad playing.
 
#38
I hear what you are saying, I just prefer those things to be a choice rather than a limitation, like my personal favorites Peter Kowald and Cy Twombly. I don't see anything wrong with a strong, narrow artistic vision but we need to have the tools to carry it out and the focus to make it interesting over time.
The key point here is bass technique is something we are all in control of, we can all choose what to study and practice and who to study with where the other side of this is much more subjective and ephemeral.
A hang in Dec. would be great, I may even be able to find you a bass for the gig.
 
#39
Thanks for posting this clip, Jason.

Edgar's playing has opened up a new voice for the upright bass in many different musical languages context. There are many unique ways to play the bass, and many great players that we can all learn from. I look forward to hearing more from Paul Kowert.
 

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