Please help - First four frets on e-string sound bad

[Erland Horten]

Hi, and thanks for a great forum. Hope to benefit from all the wisdom gathered here.

I´m fairly seasoned in playing music, but quite new to playing bass. Especially set up and dialing in the sound from the amp is a bit of a pita at the moment...

Bass is a Sandberg Electra, jazz bass. Strings are flats, slinky 45-105 (If I remember right) Amp is Genz Benz Shuttle Max 6.0.
I´m trying to get a sort of neutral sound. Would like it to be defined, but at the same time warm and perhaps a bit on the dark side, rather than bright. And I can get this pretty much were I want it, except on the low E to G#. First four frets on the E-string.

I´ll try to describe the sound I get (and thats a bit hard as english is not my first language). There is a sort of buzz there, almost ratteling (not fret buzz, or loose hardware), or a kind of twangy sound that dominates. The tone won´t "settle", and the higher overtones dominates. Sort of a chorus effect, or a kind of a slight "frrrrr", is another way to describe it.

I hear this even without the amp, so my guess is something to do with strings, string attachment, or setup. Action is medium high, and picups aswell. (Have been playing with hights, and it does not alter this problem).

I cut the E string a bit to short when putting it on, and I remember reading somewhere that to few turns around the pole on the tuner could cause something like this. (Wrong angle from the pole to the nut) Do you think that´s likely to be my problem? Other things to consider regarding string-attatchment? I honestly don´t know much about that...
Grateful for any insight you might share!

 

[johnh89]

Post a picture of the E string at the nut / machine head and we may have a few suggestions . It sounds like a string problem . Either twisting or insufficient break angle over the nut . Possibly due to string cut too short . Keep us posted and you will get an answer from the good folk on here.

 

[Erland Horten]

Post a picture of the E string at the nut / machine head and we may have a few suggestions . It sounds like a string problem . Either twisting or insufficient break angle over the nut . Possibly due to string cut too short . Keep us posted and you will get an answer from the good folk on here.

Thanks, will take pics in a few hours. If you could explain to me what twisting is, and what it´d might cause, that would be great.

It also comes to mind that the groove in the nut is quite tight for these strings. I had to push the string down. Should it be like that?

 

[Lobster11]

I cut the E string a bit to short when putting it on, and I remember reading somewhere that to few turns around the pole on the tuner could cause something like this. (Wrong angle from the pole to the nut) Do you think that´s likely to be my problem?

Exactly. You want the string to exit from the bottom of the tuning post to create a sharp angle over the nut. If there aren't enough wraps around the post, the string will slide up to the top of the post and you won't have that sharp break angle. Pics will be helpful to confirm, but I'd be very surprised if this isn't the problem.

One way to test would be to have a helper push and hold the wrapped string down to the bottom of the post while you play those low notes. If the problem goes away, that's it.

 

[JvJazz83]

Could it be that the tight fit of the nut slot keeps the string from making full contact with the zero- fret that this bass has? Thus creating a buzz/ rattle.

 

[Erland Horten]

Some pictures

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Some picturesView attachment 5267715 View attachment 5267716 View attachment 5267718 View attachment 5267719

A better break angle may not solve the problem but it’s definitely not going to hurt. Can you get the second wrap of the E string below the first? It currently appears to be above it. Also, while the string is off of the tuner try starting at the bridge and sort of pinch the string with light pressure and run your fingers along the length of the string towards the tuner to help untwist it if it is twisted.

 

[Erland Horten]

Yes, I will try that. Maybe I´ll put on a new set.
Any advice about how tight/ lose the slot in the nut should be? Will an old string work as a file?

 

[RSBBass]

It is hard to tell from pictures but the break angle doesn't look good. Also the slot looks to high for the zero fret. The good thing is these are easy fixes. Use as much of the string as you can and wind the string down the post.
The good thing about a zero fret is the nut just holds the string in place. it is hard to screw one up. So get a round file and gently enlarge the slot. The slot should be snug but not tight on the sides. It should be deep enough that you get solid contact on the zero fret. The string should have a bit of a bend at the zero fret, not just resting on it.

 

[Turnaround]

If the problem were the nut or the break angle, it would not be evident when fretting. Since the problem exists while fretting on the first 4 frets, the culprit is not the nut.

Since the strings are so poorly installed, I suspect that they are twisted or otherwise damaged.

 

[gln1955]

The other possibility is the pickup is too close to your E string. Even when not working, the magnetic field can do weird things that give that kind of chorus-like sound.

 

[Turnaround]

The other possibility is the pickup is too close to your E string. Even when not working, the magnetic field can do weird things that give that kind of chorus-like sound.

More likely that this would be apparent when fretting further up the neck rather than down at the first 4 frets.

 

[gln1955]

More likely that this would be apparent when fretting further up the neck rather than down at the first 4 frets.

Yes, that's where I've had that issue. Still, it's easy to check out.

 

[Erland Horten]

Thought I´d give you an update, in case someone else is having similar issues.

I changed the strings to one step thinner. (45-100), and made sure i innstalled them as correctely as I knew how to. That helped a tiny bit.

Eventually booked some time with a local luthier. He agreed that there was something lacking in the bottom end. He found that the zero fret was quite high, so he took that down a bit. He also sanded down a few other spots on some frets and gave the neck a bit more relief on the truss rod. Then adjusted string height and intonation.

Result was a SIGNIFICANT better tone in the bottom. A bit darker, and at the same time more defined. Lost a lot of the disturbing higher overtones.
I think the main part was the job on the zero fret, but I also suspect that the "loosening" of the truss rod made a difference.

Thank you for your help!

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Thought I´d give you an update, in case someone else is having similar issues.

I changed the strings to one step thinner. (45-100), and made sure i innstalled them as correctely as I knew how to. That helped a tiny bit.

Eventually booked some time with a local luthier. He agreed that there was something lacking in the bottom end. He found that the zero fret was quite high, so he took that down a bit. He also sanded down a few other spots on some frets and gave the neck a bit more relief on the truss rod. Then adjusted string height and intonation.

Result was a SIGNIFICANT better tone in the bottom. A bit darker, and at the same time more defined. Lost a lot of the disturbing higher overtones.
I think the main part was the job on the zero fret, but I also suspect that the "loosening" of the truss rod made a difference.

Thank you for your help!

I’m glad you got it sorted out. Enjoy the bass!