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poly & lacquer finishing question

W

warwick89

Oct 6, 2009
86
3
#1
hey guys i have a question. i have been doing a lot of reading on the subject of making custom decals and sealing them so that you cant see the edges.

I have a neck refinished in poly.
I have read that lacquer looks better, dries tons faster and only takes minutes rather than hours/days between coats.

My question is: if my finish is poly can i shoot lacquer over the poly?
I have been talking to a professional cabinet maker and he says lacquer will do some crazy stuff to the poly finish because lacquer kinda burns/melts into it self or whatever.
So can i shoot the lacquer or just shoot or wipe poly with the same results?
Thanks
 
#2
The question of looks is completely subjective.

The solvents of most lacquer solutions are more volatile than most urethanes. However, unless you are using catalyzed lacquer the curing time will be longer with lacquers.

Yes you can shoot some lacquers over some urethanes provided that the solvents so not interfere with each other. There is only one way to find out.
 
#3
+1

Just the smell of lacquer is self explanatory, it smells really strong, it makes the ink on the labels run, and its freakin cold on the fingers just like acetone. Im not sure I would try it over poly. and fwiw, I wouldnt recommend using pre cat.
 
#5
Nitro will kill you.
It is hard and brittle,
good for steel,
but will crack and chip on wood.
It is extremely toxic and it will destroy your liver.

Water borne acrylic lacquer has no polyurethane in it,
is crystal clear, tough as iron,
and flexible forever,
It will move as the wood moves and never crack or chip.
It is made for spray, tho you can brush it.

Build up several layers then sand back... carefully.
Add more layers, more sanding...
the edges will disappear.

Hydrocote - look it up.
The only thing I have used for 20 years.
 
#7
Yes, you can shoot nitro over a guitar poly finish. Scuff sand with 400/600 paper, dust off, clean with naptha before spraying the nitro.

In your case, it may be easier to spray a fixative over your decal and let dry. Scuff the area of the headstock with 0000 steel wool, clean with naptha and let dry. Apply the decal and let dry. Apply Tru-oil by hand over the decal and build up with about 10 coats
(with at least 3 hours between coats), to bury the decal. Then wet sand level. Have done this process a few times with no problems with I was using Tru-oil for the neck finish.

Here is a good finish procedure.http://reranch.com/reranch/viewtopic.php?t=15094
 
#8
Lon said:
Yes, you can shoot nitro over a guitar poly finish. Scuff sand with 400/600 paper, dust off, clean with naptha before spraying the nitro.

In your case, it may be easier to spray a fixative over your decal and let dry. Scuff the area of the headstock with 0000 steel wool, clean with naptha and let dry. Apply the decal and let dry. Apply Tru-oil by hand over the decal and build up with about 10 coats
(with at least 3 hours between coats), to bury the decal. Then wet sand level. Have done this process a few times with no problems with I was using Tru-oil for the neck finish.

Here is a good finish procedure.http://reranch.com/reranch/viewtopic.php?t=15094
Click to expand...

define fixative just so im sure....
what is tru-oil exactly...
thanks for the good info.
 
#10
warwick89 said:
define fixative just so im sure....
Click to expand...
The fixative is a spray that covers the waterslide ink to keep it from running when put into the water before application. Most guys that use nitro as a clear coat, will mist spray 3-4 coats of nitro over the decal as a fixative, let dry overnight. Then cut out the decal and apply as directed
http://www.papilio.com/spray clear flexible decal fixative.html
http://www.thefret.net/showthread.php?t=6091

warwick89 said:
what is tru-oil exactly
Click to expand...
Tru-oil is a linseed oil based wipe on poly, used on gun stocks. A lot of guys are now using it on their necks because they like the looks, feel and making a fast playing neck with no stickiness, unlike nitro. It dries fast, easy to repair, imparts a slight amber color to the neck.
 
#11
I used nitro for years as a cabinet maker. that stuff will kill you as has been said before. if you go that route, be sure to use adequate protection and more than adequate ventilation!

I am a bigger fan of the water borne stuff these days. That being said, I am actually to a point where I will pay someone else to pollute their bodies and have my stuff finished for me by those who have the gear, have the set ups and are willing to play with chemicals.

The *cough* guitar *cough* I am refinishing now is a project done out of curiosity and other than an odd, acrylic finished headstock here or there, may be of the last that I finish myself.

It is too simple to buy a professionally finished body cheap enough that I don't have to breathe in noxious fumes....
 
#13
Lon said:
Yes, you can shoot nitro over a guitar poly finish. Scuff sand with 400/600 paper, dust off, clean with naptha before spraying the nitro.

In your case, it may be easier to spray a fixative over your decal and let dry. Scuff the area of the headstock with 0000 steel wool, clean with naptha and let dry. Apply the decal and let dry. Apply Tru-oil by hand over the decal and build up with about 10 coats
(with at least 3 hours between coats), to bury the decal. Then wet sand level. Have done this process a few times with no problems with I was using Tru-oil for the neck finish.

Here is a good finish procedure.http://reranch.com/reranch/viewtopic.php?t=15094
Click to expand...

what about this stuff? My finish is Minwax Gloss poly. i have this stuff in my shop. http://oem.sherwin-williams.com/us/eng/products/sherwood_cabacrylic_lacquer/
 
#14
My experience is acrylic lacquers are soft and prone to moisture absorption. Instruments take a beating are are usually played by organisms that are ~77% water.

I would hold out for a nitrocellulose lacquer or an epoxy if you have the spray equipment.
 
#15
mikeyswood said:
My experience is acrylic lacquers are soft and prone to moisture absorption. Instruments take a beating are are usually played by organisms that are ~77% water.

I would hold out for a nitrocellulose lacquer or an epoxy if you have the spray equipment.
Click to expand...

nitro: well can i just buy that in small amounts (how much is that stuff?)

epoxy: What about Mirror Coat epoxy? i have brand new bottles of that!

And i have a spray gun.... if thats what you mean by equipment.

Thanks for the reply
 
#16
I like Deltron epoxy paints for clear coats. You can get them at a good auto paint store.

Nitrocellulose is available in a can but you will want to make sure that it is a nitro lacquer. Deft is not nitro and Watco is(~$8 per can and three cans per bass). Look on the can and you will see nitro listed as an active chemical.
 
#17
mikeyswood said:
I like Deltron epoxy paints for clear coats. You can get them at a good auto paint store.

Nitrocellulose is available in a can but you will want to make sure that it is a nitro lacquer. Deft is not nitro and Watco is(~$8 per can and three cans per bass). Look on the can and you will see nitro listed as an active chemical.
Click to expand...

will a can give decent results?
Everytime i use a can clear is looks horrible.
 
#18
You will want to be in a low moisture environment while spraying. Keep the cans at ~80°F and use each can for just a couple of seconds. Shake the cans well and spray as even of coat as possible.

Lacquer is very forgiving; except for moisture.
 
#19
mikeyswood said:
You will want to be in a low moisture environment while spraying. Keep the cans at ~80°F and use each can for just a couple of seconds. Shake the cans well and spray as even of coat as possible.

Lacquer is very forgiving; except for moisture.
Click to expand...

Thanks man, good info.
Ive followed a lot of your bass builds/projects and you do awesome work, my man! Post some more build threads. im getting bored here at work. :)

thanks again.
 
#20
There were many backhanded compliments and useless comments on my restoration thread so I will probably stick to helping others when in need and asking when I am in need.

I may build a thread for my Marlan build since I have been able to make many mistakes appear to be intentional. That may help a few here.
 

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