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polyrythmic tapping

Discussion in 'Technique [BG]' started by OrderingEntropy, Aug 19, 2005.


  1. OrderingEntropy

    OrderingEntropy

    Jun 17, 2005
    Does anyone have much experience doing this? I've attempted it a few times recently, but it always comes out just sounding like one rythm. Any pointers?


    Anyone?
     
  2. chimp

    chimp

    Dec 4, 2004
    South Africa
    Im interested in this aswell since i am currently working on my tapping so i hope you don't mind if i sit and watch.
     
  3. OrderingEntropy

    OrderingEntropy

    Jun 17, 2005

    be my guest

    [makes an inviting gesture]

    have a seat.
     
  4. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    What do you mean when you say "polyrhythmic"? Cause that means "many rhythms" and generally denotes a 2 against 3 or 3 against 4 rhythmic pattern. It doesn't really matter HOW you get the rhythm out, you could tap it or just play it.

    What are you really trying to do?
     
  5. OrderingEntropy

    OrderingEntropy

    Jun 17, 2005
    What I'm really trying to do is just what I said earlier. I'm trying to tap one rhythm with one hand, and another rhythm with the other.

    I have trouble with the polyrhythmic part. I always wind up making just one line using both hands to tap it out.
     
  6. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    It doesn't sound like you're having trouble with the "rhythm" part, it sounds like you're having trouble with the "melody" part. You might have to start off pretty mechanically - write out a line in 3 for one hand, then write another line in 4 for the other. Practice them independently and then practice putting them together. You can practice one against the other, to help get the "sound" of what you're going for in your ear, by recording each line seperately and then practicing playing one against the recording of the other.
     
  7. chimp

    chimp

    Dec 4, 2004
    South Africa
    I think my main problem when it comes to tapping is the hand independance(sp?) my brain simply can't work on playing a bassline and a melody at the same time. What exersizes can i do to help this? I only have one exersizes at the moment and that is doing scales in contri-motion. It all comes down to the mind! So how do i train my mind/hands to become seperate?
     
  8. Believe it or not, this partially relates to the bassists learning piano thread somewhere else.. I think it is mainly the part about hand independence though. Through piano(keyboard mostly) I learned to keep one hand playing a steady part while soloing over it with my other hand.

    When I wanted to transfer this over to bass I took some of the preset drum type beats in the keyboard and played them.. then I would fiddle around getting something going. After getting that I would use it as a basis to then tap the original part with my left hand and make up something with my right. As for working them together to sound better, just concentrate and practice. Relaxing is key IMO.

    I doubt this will work for everyone, but I thought it might help.
     
  9. Amastacatious

    Amastacatious

    Jul 20, 2005
    When you want to learn, transcribe, or right songs thing about it as simply as possible. Together and not together. If it helps write something down like, right left both, both both left. If you don't think about it as 2 different things and think about it as one thing played with 2 hands it becomes alot easier.
     
  10. Hmmm.. try studying victor wooten's version of overjoyed. IT helped me alot in developing my independence of hands in terms of tapping. Im not super good at it at the moment but learning to play it helped me alot. :bassist: :D
     
  11. pauljacksonfan

    pauljacksonfan

    Jun 14, 2005
    Latin tumbao's are a great way to get into hand independance. This has playing a bassline with your left and chords with your right like this( man I suck at tabbing):

    LH:
    Q' Q'/s QtieQ Qt8
    G:-------- :--------
    D:-------- :--------
    A:---5--10-:10-5-5
    E:3------- :----

    Aw, tell you what, I'll make it in powertabs and post it here in a few minutes instead. My point was the value of nailing one hand at a time.

    Ok, now I've added it. It's quite hard to read though. I've written it out with only left hand first, then only right hand, then both. If anyone rather wants it in ptb where you actually see what's going on; pm me.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. pauljacksonfan

    pauljacksonfan

    Jun 14, 2005
    OK, so I thought this was so fun that I made another one. Same thing here, left hand line first, then right hand then both.

    This one's a little easier to read, though.

    Oh, one more thing. For this one and the last; the last quarter note in the left hand before the repeat marker is to be tied with the first note if that makes any sense.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. lyle

    lyle Guest

    Jan 10, 2004
    Vernon, B.C. Canada
    If you have ever sat down and played around on some drums its chalanging to get one foot doing one thing and another doing something while you play snare a highhat. I recomend working on it in sections then combining them. You got to kind of zone out to do it until its natural, if your thinking of the first riff then try and start the second itll mess up you got to start the first then ignore what your doing (play it naturaly with out thinking) then start the other. It kind of feels like your brain is split in too at first. Also try some drums that can help exercise your brain so its used to dual tasks.

    also Linus and lucy is a great place to start.
     
  14. mlbarlow

    mlbarlow

    Apr 26, 2005
    Plattsburgh, NY
    Alright, as a school music teacher, I've got to be a jerk and point out that polyrhythm describes 2 over 3 or 4 over 19 or whatever, as some people have displayed above. This doesn't seem what you're talking about; you want to know how to gain independence between your hands.

    I'm pretty much going to say exactly what other people have said above, but just in a different way. The piano analogy is good. Learn to play some basic stuff on the piano. It's good for your musicianship as well as this situation. Also, write out EXACTLY what you want to do. (If you're reading from someone else's writing, you're already in business.) Notice what lines up and what doesn't line up. I liked the idea above of thinking of one musical action performed with two hands.

    Practice slow and gain speed. Good luck.
     
  15. bassjigga

    bassjigga

    Aug 6, 2003
    You might also want to try this question in the "Ask Steve Lawson and Michael Manring" section. I know Michael does quite a bit of tapping.
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher

    Apr 28, 2000
    New York, NY
    Do you read or write music? If the two lines are heavily syncopated, it really helps me to see them written out so I can see how they lie rhythmically against each other. In my case, practicing or listening to the two lines separately isn't nearly as effective as *seeing* them together. YMMV.
     
  17. chimp

    chimp

    Dec 4, 2004
    South Africa
    Yes i read music. I think what it comes down to is the practise! I am setting aside a hour everyday to work on my tapping and i will try and come up with some exersizes and ill post them here if i do.
     
  18. Exploreforever

    Exploreforever

    Aug 24, 2005
    Listen to Meshuggah while you sleep
     
  19. Ozzyman

    Ozzyman

    Jul 21, 2004
    If it's polyrhythmic, then practice each part seperately until you can play it while sleeping and then put them together. Though when learning Moonlight Sonata I learned each beat at a time with both hands. It was easier for me w/that piece. YMMV
     
  20. Sonorous

    Sonorous

    Oct 1, 2003
    Denton, TX
    Do you mean polyphonic? With a rhythm part and a melody part?

    Polyrhythmic would involve two different time signatures.