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Double Bass Position Dot Inlays: Where do most people put them?
- Thread starter Lorin Cohen
- Start date
I realize that the sense of hearing and touch can be enhanced in many blind people. But that doesn't mean that being blind - or shutting one's eyes - makes everyone a better musician. I strongly suspect that for both sighted and blind musicians, talent makes one a better musician. Is there any reason to believe that Ray/Stevie/Jeff would not have been talented musicians had they been able to see?
About 5 years into my career I started to realize that for the first time in my life I was touch-typing. Within another 5 years I found that if I forced myself to watch my key strokes, it slowed me down. At that point, I started applying that philosophy to musical instruments, and found the same thing.
It's not the relationship to hearing, it's that watching slows us down.
It's not the relationship to hearing, it's that watching slows us down.
Not as big a leap as that comment, lol Do you always visually focus on something playing live? I certainly don't.
I never said or implied any of the things you have added to my comment. I merely stated a very well established fact that predate the three musicians I mentioned by centuries in fairly common knowledge. A few decades experience and few years playing fretless only hasn't given me any reason to doubt that fact. Playing fretless bass was when my eyes became completely irrelevant to the task.
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Did you find using visual markers helped you accomplish the work at hand until you were proficient at touch typing or would you recommend starting on an un marked keyboard?
I learned to touch type early on and definitely value the skill. I don’t think everyone should hunt n peck but I also think there is reason most keyboards are marked.
I don’t disagree at all that playing music for fluently without looking at our hands or focusing on the technical demands of the instruments is the goal. But I also see a place for landmarks on the bass, particularly while climbing the steepest portions of the learning curve
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At first, yes, my typing was so bad, plus I was working on the brand new (!) IBM PC keyboards, which were totally non-intuitive to me, so the visual markings and the tactile markings and tactile responses were essential to me.
The thing is, I didn't realize I was touch typing at exactly the time that I started to do that... I only realized it when I looked away at other things and almost accidentally kept typing correctly. Sort of funny.
From an instrument standpoint, and I do this with all the instruments I play now, if I'm learning a new passage or a technique, I try to imagine what my fingers should be doing, and then do that without watching. At least for me, watching doesn't just slow things down, it decreases both accuracy and stylistic efforts, plus it prevents me from watching band and jam mates' body language and playing techniques, which are important because they further queue me in on the playing I should be doing.
The thing is, I didn't realize I was touch typing at exactly the time that I started to do that... I only realized it when I looked away at other things and almost accidentally kept typing correctly. Sort of funny.
From an instrument standpoint, and I do this with all the instruments I play now, if I'm learning a new passage or a technique, I try to imagine what my fingers should be doing, and then do that without watching. At least for me, watching doesn't just slow things down, it decreases both accuracy and stylistic efforts, plus it prevents me from watching band and jam mates' body language and playing techniques, which are important because they further queue me in on the playing I should be doing.
That makes sense. I feel the same way about written music sometimes when I’m working on new material. I lean heavily on the lead sheet right up until the point when I realize I’m really playing it well and have been looking at the same bar for a while now
Really beautiful when something that was hard to get under my fingers just flows. In search of more moments like that.
That makes sense. I feel the same way about written music sometimes when I’m working on new material. I lean heavily on the lead sheet right up until the point when I realize I’m really playing it well and have been looking at the same bar for a while now
This is an interesting point. I specifically like dots/lines as a learning aid, because it means fewer repetitions early in the learning process for a passage where I'm just guessing, while I teach my proprioception and ear to find a location. Once something is really dialed in, a pencil line might help set a target but it's my spatial memory and ear that's doing the real work and the pencil is a very vague guideline.
I don't want to imply that I'm anti-dot/line, but I am definitely a big believer in "try before you modify" because it's so easy to just try it out and see how it works before you go making permanent modifications to your bass. I'm doubly a believer because I had planned to make those modifications, tried it out, and decided against doing it as a result - so I'm really glad I gave it a shot first.
I definitely wouldn't judge another player negatively for arriving at the opposite conclusion.
That makes sense to me. I just moved from a 5/8 to a 7/8 instrument and found some lil stickers really helpful in finding all the notes again and getting comfy with the longer scale.
I guess I just feel compelled to pipe up in favor of markers when/where they are helpful because I have found them very useful at different points. Agree completely on non permanent markers, just because set ups and needs change. But everyone is relying on some kind of visual or tactile landmarks to get around the bass and I don’t see being intentional about placing them as much different than using the heel or whatever else.
Adding a little bit of tape to the bottom of the neck as a physical cue for my thumb in the lower register was super helpful jumping into bluegrass sessions for the first time and gave me a little help finding the positions while watching the guitarist and learning the tunes
The big bass can be intimidating, in favor of more people playing more songs and whatever gets us there
Hey Lorin, late to the thread but I used stick on dots for a while when I bought an Eb neck bass.
I'd been playing D neck for 30 years up to that point. I put one at the octave and after a few months
didn't need it anymore. From time to time, when I have a difficult interval, I'll add a pencil mark to the fingerboard.
I'd been playing D neck for 30 years up to that point. I put one at the octave and after a few months
didn't need it anymore. From time to time, when I have a difficult interval, I'll add a pencil mark to the fingerboard.
I have discovered that If place a White Out dot on the side of the fingerboard at the Ab spot on the E string, I can easily find Db using index finger on the A string. F# and B are also in the same position. In this way I can easily jump to the middle of the finger board that is usually the "No Man's Land" and is the hardest spot to jump to accurately. I discovered this when I was playing with a professional Clarinet Quartet and had to come in playing an arco Db after 10 bars rest. These guys had excellent pitch and were constantly on my back if I was not 100% accurate. Really helps when playing in sharp keys or even 4, 5, & 6 flats. Second finger on the dot also sets you up for playing major triads and major 7ths more easily. The White Out dot can very easily be removed or repositioned if string height is changed. I also place a dot in the Octave position in the middle of the fingerboard. So I only need two dots. Please let me know if anyone else has tried this. Comment appreciated
Great Minds... I just posted my experience on the same solution. I think it's a great idea!
Dots at "frets" 3, 5, 12 and 19 are the way to go.
Makes doubling so much easier for me.
Dot at Ab (simandl II-1/2 position) makes no sense to me?
Makes doubling so much easier for me.
Dot at Ab (simandl II-1/2 position) makes no sense to me?
E-string G#/Ab makes a lot of sense to me. I generally have no trouble nailing F/F#/G (or Bb/B/C on the A-string) but finding G#/Ab (or C#/Db on the A) is chancy. I've been unmarked for some time now but might throw one on there to go back to "cheating" since it remains chancy, while I've definitely got to where I don't miss the 4 tape lines I put on there as a trombone player picking up an upright bass for the first time 9.4 years ago.
I just go up a string when it gets as far as 5, and I never visit 12 or 19. I rarely visit the G string at all and will probably try going BEAD at some point. I wonder if the fattest side of the set of SBW Deluxe (which I'm considering getting, since they supposedly bow well) will work that low.
I just go up a string when it gets as far as 5, and I never visit 12 or 19. I rarely visit the G string at all and will probably try going BEAD at some point. I wonder if the fattest side of the set of SBW Deluxe (which I'm considering getting, since they supposedly bow well) will work that low.
I'm using those fattest SBW Deluxe strings. The D and G strings might work as A and D, but I doubt if the E (especially) and A strings will work as B and E, they're already pretty low tension in concert pitch. The possible exception would be if you're amp'ed, where you wouldn't be worried about acoustic clarity and volume. The vast majority of my playing is acoustic, but a lot of happy SBW Deluxe players do play almost exclusively amp'ed.
To be fair, BEAD is a pretty low tuning for just about any strings on double bass. "D standard" (DGCF) tuning or 5ths (CGDA) tuning with special strings would probably be more realistic.
Maybe more on-topic, I've got side markers at every half-step up to D. It makes life easier since I also play a lot of fretted instruments. That said, without side or fingerboard markers, people use grain, neck geography, touch, or other less obvious built-in markers. Ideally at some point we all primarily use our ears.
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A dot at Ab on the E string makes sense to me, as that note is still the hardest for me to play consistently in tune, even after 45 years at this!
I always do 1, 3, 5 and sometimes 7 if the heel stop isn’t how I like ‘em.
This might be plausible for playing below the octave. But playing fretless is nothing like playing the whole of the double bass, other than having a continuous fingerboard and the tuning. You might think it is similar, but it isn’t because when you play in thumb position or above the second octave you drastically change your body position — even if sitting but to an extreme when standing. Physical feedback from the bass can give you some of the information about where you are. But to jump from an A on the G string to a A above the second octave without portamento as you do in Bottesini, much the less contemporary classical which is much harder in this regard. Visual feedback is for most of us invaluable.
As to dots, horses for courses! My dots are on the octave, the B above the octave (a mistake of communication with the luthier but great for Bach) The D above the octave and the second octave. The end of the fingerboard helps with finding the third octave G.
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