Double Bass Possible bow upgrade opportunity, next logical step up?

[Who da Ville]

FWIW, I own one of the Gollihur pernambuco bows. I think that it's probably a pretty good beginner's bow, but I personally think that I've out-grown mine. Last year, while having this bow re-haired, the shop lent me a $500 Eastman bow to try out. The Eastman was a clear upgrade (smoother sound and more 'nimble') However, I didn't think that it was enough of an upgrade that I wouldn't outgrow it in time.

I think that what I personally need to do is to contact a vendor that will mail me a few bows to try out before making a purchase. My guess is that I'll probably have to spend between $1 & $2 K for the bow that will get me through the next few steps of learning. I've not done it yet, because whenever I mention such a thing to 'you-know-who', she laughs rather than saying "Yeah, that'd be a great idea."

YVMV, etc.

 

[Aragorn35016]

Bows are on the way to try courtesy of the string emporium!

 

[Ed S]

Bows are on the way to try courtesy of the string emporium!

Yay! Looking forward to a detailed review!

 

[Aragorn35016]

Steve’s waiting on a bow case to return to ship them, they’re supposed to go out next week, I’ll post pics, my very non professional reviews as well as what my teacher thinks of each one, and if I’m not too self conscious maybe a basic sound clip of what each one sounds like on the Cleveland with Spiros.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

If it’s an option, ask for bows with black hair. It tends to squeal less on Spiros.

 

[Aragorn35016]

First off sorry for the picture spam!

Received the bows today from Steve at the string emporium. Steve is a really nice man, and an incredible player, and was kind enough to spend some time with me to figure out some bows to try based on my price range. He sent me the following to try:

1. String Emporium Brand Permanbuco Bow
2. W. Dorfler #18 Bow
3 Otto Durrschmidt Bow

These bows range from around 800 to 1000 dollars. All 3 of these are way better than what I currently have, but I can already tell you that one of them stands out above the other 2 both in the hand and sound wise, and it oozes with warm raw power. I tortured my wife and kid for about 45 min helping me with a blind listen, and they picked the same bow time and time again, however, I know that I am a total DB newby and maybe blinded by instant gratification, so Im bringing them with me Tuesday to have my teacher give them all a real test just to make sure that he doesn't think one of the others may be a better bow in the long run. So I'll disclose after I see him as to which one I go with.

All of the pics shown will be with the bow hairs tightened so that the camber of each can be seen under tension.

1. String emporium brand

2. W. Dorfler #18

3. Otto Durrschmidt

 

[AGCurry]

Okay... we have to know which is your favorite.

 

[Aragorn35016]

Okay... we have to know which is your favorite.

Lol ok, so again they are all fine bows. The String emporium bow is my least favorite, it is an upgrade from the bows I currently have, but not drastically better, it grabs the string a little more and is slightly more rigid but that's about it. If you zoom in on the pic, there's actually a knot in the stick about dead center.

The Otto Durrschmidt is both a fine bow and the most expensive of the 3, its lighter than the other two, and sounds really good, especially in the upper register of the bass. But to me the stick is kind of soft or overly springy, it has a lot of bounce as it goes across the string and the feel of it for me just isn't right. But I can see where someone else may like it better than the one that I like. Its my worry that my teacher might tell me this is the better one, which leads me to the clear winner in my mind.

The W. Dorfler I don't know what to say about this stick other than there are no bad qualities that I see. When I picked it up, I instantly new something special was going on with this bow. Its slightly heavier than the other two, but something about the way it balances in the hand, and its rigidity just kind of gave me chills before I ever set it to the string. The power and tonal complexity this thing has combined with warmth of sound is unbelievable, I don't seem to have to fight against it in any way. Maybe because it is so rigid, it has a great spiccato bounce, it doesn't seem to absorb anything in the bounce at all. Again I had my family do some blind comparisons of the 3 plus the two I own, and they picked this bow for sound quality multiple times. Unless me teacher talks me out of it this is the one for me. If I had anything other than beginner level poorly executed George Vance Etudes to play, id do some sound samples, but y'all don't need to endure that.

 

[Ed S]

Something must be wrong if you didn't pick the priciest one!

Did you have your wife/kid hand the bows to you blind, to see if you could feel/hear a difference w/o looking? Once you decided your preferences, it is possible you coulda played them in a way that betrayed that to your listeners.

I wonder what your teacher could tell you about the bow that would outweigh your strong preference. Glad you found one you like in your price range. If teacher approves, are you gonna pull the trigger? Or see if someone else will send you some more? You know where I'd stand!

 

[Aragorn35016]

Something must be wrong if you didn't pick the priciest one!

Did you have your wife/kid hand the bows to you blind, to see if you could feel/hear a difference w/o looking? Once you decided your preferences, it is possible you coulda played them in a way that betrayed that to your listeners.

I wonder what your teacher could tell you about the bow that would outweigh your strong preference. Glad you found one you like in your price range. If teacher approves, are you gonna pull the trigger? Or see if someone else will send you some more? You know where I'd stand!

I mixed them up a bunch each time we did the sound test, so no one heard them in the same order. Funny enough before I picked any of them up, I was looking through the paperwork that came in the box. My wife actually picked them all up and said “wow this one feels different” I had know idea which one she was talking about because I was too busy picking up the packing peanuts. When I played through them for the 1st time and was wowed she was like that’s the one I was talking about! I’m having a total Excalibur moment right now, so unless he has a strong argument otherwise come Tuesday this one is staying with me!

 

[Aragorn35016]

Had my lesson tonight, my teacher tried all the bows, and was of the same opinion that the Dorfler is a great bow and was the keeper! He played Beethovens 5th with it and a bunch of other crazy awesome stuff I’m incapable of doing. He was very impressed with the Spiccato of the bow. Made the call to the String emporium and it’s mine!

 

[AGCurry]

@Aragorn35016 , did you get the cheaper Dorfler or the expensive one?

I have just gone through a similar experience with String Emporium, except that Steve sent me two German bows, both by Dorfler. I had expected the "shop" bow ($850) and the "master" bow ($1750), but they looked identical. I chose the one I liked better, then asked him: which is the master bow? Turns out they were both the shop bows.

Now I'm having a little buyer's remorse. After practicing with the new bow for a while, I picked up my Gollihur pernambuco bow. I liked it just as well! Maybe better. It's not a fair comparison, though, because the Gollihur bow has been rehaired (black) and imbued with rosin over some time, so that might make the difference.

I now have three bows, all pretty good IME. One too many, really.

The lesson(s)? Perhaps a) evaluate new candidates not only against each other, but against what we already have, and b) hair matters. ?

 

[Ed S]

...
I now have three bows, all pretty good IME. One too many, really.
...

Serious question - what are you looking for in a bow? How do you think either of your 1st 2 bows were holding you back? What do you expect a different bow will allow you to do that you cannot do w/ your present bows?

 

[damonsmith]

I play a graphite French bow my wife bought me as a present, just to get me started w/ arco. Probably $300 range. Given my lack of ability and dedication, I can't say that it is holding me back.

It is not holding you back because carbon fiber bows function properly - due to a spring inside. I like Engelhardts a lot more than the idea that beginners don't need properly working gear or the worse idea that someone "isn't good enough to know the difference".
My art teacher used to say, "good art supplies are for amateurs"!

Hey guys, so I’ve got a birthday coming around the bend and the lovely wife is hitting me up for birthday ideas (1st world problems ). And I’m getting close to the timeline in my development that my teacher said I could start to consider a bow upgrade. I currently own 2 cheaper bows, a Krutz CF that came with my NS Cleveland and a vingowbow I bought off Amazon pictured below.
View attachment 4552880

I would say stick with those two, the wood bow will be warmer, the vingobow will be clean and work properly. You are looking for, tone, grip and bounce, but bounce with a quick grab in a bow upgrade. If both of those are balanced I wouldn't worry about the bow upgrade for now. Get a good rehair and keep going.

 

[Aragorn35016]

@Aragorn35016 , did you get the cheaper Dorfler or the expensive one?

I have just gone through a similar experience with String Emporium, except that Steve sent me two German bows, both by Dorfler. I had expected the "shop" bow ($850) and the "master" bow ($1750), but they looked identical. I chose the one I liked better, then asked him: which is the master bow? Turns out they were both the shop bows.

Now I'm having a little buyer's remorse. After practicing with the new bow for a while, I picked up my Gollihur pernambuco bow. I liked it just as well! Maybe better. It's not a fair comparison, though, because the Gollihur bow has been rehaired (black) and imbued with rosin over some time, so that might make the difference.

I now have three bows, all pretty good IME. One too many, really.

The lesson(s)? Perhaps a) evaluate new candidates not only against each other, but against what we already have, and b) hair matters. ?

Hey AG, I got the Dorfler, based on what I felt/heard, which was also agreed upon/verified by my teacher. In your scenario your Gollihur bow may in fact be close to the same feel/quality right off the bat, but in my case my vingo or my Krutz CF are not even in the same league with it!

 

[AGCurry]

Serious question - what are you looking for in a bow? How do you think either of your 1st 2 bows were holding you back? What do you expect a different bow will allow you to do that you cannot do w/ your present bows?

People describe their experience in getting a better bow by saying that it makes playing easier. THAT's what I'm looking for!

 

[AGCurry]

Hey AG, I got the Dorfler

But which Dorfler? String Emporium advertises two Dorflers - one which costs three figures and one which costs four.

 

[Anne Millington]

@Aragorn35016
...I now have three bows, all pretty good IME. One too many, really.

The lesson(s)? Perhaps a) evaluate new candidates not only against each other, but against what we already have, and b) hair matters. ?...

Yeah, a good rehair can be transformative. But now you have just the right number of bows: one to play, one for backup, and one to lend or sell to a newbie who needs a solid starter bow!

 

[Ed S]

People describe their experience in getting a better bow by saying that it makes playing easier. THAT's what I'm looking for!

I greatly appreciate that sentiment, but I'm often reminded of golf (my other avocation), in which it is EXTREMELY common for people to try to BUY themselves a better game...

I wonder if music is similar to golf in the respect that there is equipment which is more "forgiving" and appropriate for most amateurs, as opposed to the precision tools which are best for pros, but can result in many "mis-hits."

 

[Aragorn35016]

But which Dorfler? String Emporium advertises two Dorflers - one which costs three figures and one which costs four.

My apologies, I got the #18 Dorfler Select Bow. $850 dollars.